[MeanMussy]

Please consider this simply as voice-of-the-customer input.

The OS business model does not really fit this product. Even the tightwads at Micro$oft delivered some feature improvements in the form of service packs for free, but that's not really the point. From what I can see, revisions of the software are not complete overhauls; they are improvements upon the existing software. Perhaps there are some overhauls on the backend, but from a consumer value standpoint, that is not something they are willing to pay for unless it delivers a marked improvement to the users' experience with the product. So, to the consumer, they have already purchased a license for the software in whole, of which the new version retains 90% (to use an arbitrary but directionally correct value) of the previous content, delivering minimal improvements. Yet the full price of purchase is being demanded for the marginal feature upgrades (from the consumer's perspective). From a value proposition, the purchase of the new software does not deliver the same value as the original purchase. If theory holds true, this would mean only a small portion of current license holders would upgrade to the new releases. For a specialized product with a very limited potential customer base, this works to effectively reduce demand for your product over time. Each new customer is one less purchase later on. Whereas an existing customer upgrade, priced closer to the value perceived by the consumer (which is often different from the value perceived by the seller who has sweat equity built into the product), would have a greater chance of producing significant improvements to passive income as this would entice the entire existing customer base to continue making purchases with each new release.

A follow on problem with that business model is that of perception. This can be seen it in the post above where the customer purchased software only to find out that it is outdated. Yes, it may have been mentioned on the different forums, but people often don't invest heavily into the forums until they have purchased and they need help. But in the age of social media, one slighted consumer can in turn affect the purchasing decisions of many others. This is limited again by the specialized nature of the product in that the exposure to your potential new customer base will be limited, but it will not go completely unnoticed. Each customer that feels they have been trapped by their purchase eliminates a potential repeat customer, and produces a negative impact on any future customers they come in contact with. Which in the end reduces the income of the seller.

As for those potential new customers, the full-price-for-upgrade strategy also produces a barrier to entry for consumers. In fear of missing the next upgrade, they hold off on their purchase until it is absolutely necessary. In order to avoid paying double for the product, they pay nothing. From the perspective of the seller this is undesirable as it delays revenue and eliminates consumers from the pool of potential repeat buyers (either at full price or a reduce price as discussed above).

Anyways... Please don't take this as me telling you what you should do with your business. I don't have any idea how many customers you have, nor what percentage of those are repeat customers, nor how successful this model has been for you. Having access to that information, you have chosen a strategy that suits your particular situation. The above ramblings are simply the observations and perceptions of an outside consumer looking in, shared just in case it provokes some ideas that might help make you more successful. Just food for thought.

[cgrey8]

All valid points, but there were significant updates put into BE2012 and some structural differences to the way BE works...chargeable benefits.

Now what I can agree with you on is existing customers shouldn't have to pay as much for the new version as new customers. Even Microsoft understands that by selling upgrade versions for cheaper than full-install versions of their OSs and Office Suites.

One thing I can say is BE users quite frequently get BE feature updates even within given versions. That was quite a common thing in the early days of BE. Now that BE is getting rather mature with it's offering, I don't know how much of that we'll continue to see. But the fact is if BE works for you, at whatever version you are at, it'll continue to do what it does whether you upgrade or not. And any major bugs found are fixed in a timely manner. That doesn't mean all bugs are found and fixed before the next version of BE is released. But it does mean any major issue that the vast majority of users would be affected by will have been found and dealt with.

For all the other points, I'll have to leave those to the developer to answer for if he chooses.

As an employee of a software/hardware manufacturer, I see things from Clint's standpoint, but as a user, I see it from a customer's standpoint as well. And having that unique perspective, I often pass my thoughts and comments on to Clint to also consider. I don't think there is any perfect system when it comes to taking people's money and offering service later.

From a developer's standpoint, subscription based business models work out best because there's a constant flow of money coming in AND there's the incentive to keep the customers happy or they don't renew. And if a customer doesn't renew, it's much easier to say "No soup for you!" But there are also issues with subscription services where a customer pays say $25/year for as long as they use the software, and thus have to re-license every year, but for a substantially cheaper rate than buying the software out-right. A person that can get done everything they want in a year can often make out better under that setup. However enthusiasts that want the freedom to tinker indefinitely are at a burden by that setup because they have to pay every year for a software they may or may no longer get the same level of benefit from as they did early on in their tuning.

Overall, I think Clint has come up with as good of a compromise as possible. Again, it's not perfect, but it works for the majority of the people that actually do their research BEFORE investing by reading.

Now that said, I also think it is reasonable and a good suggestion for Clint to direct people to the forum's FAQ section BEFORE buying software just to make sure they understand what they are getting into prior to making the investment.

[MeanMussy]

I'm looking forward to checking out BE2012; so far all I've seen are the release notes. I have it downloaded, but haven't dropped out of Linux and into Windows to install it yet (I actually need to get a VM or Wine working on this box again and try installing BE through that route... but that's a different discussion).

Software pricing is always a tricky subject. Open source and piracy have created a pseudo-sense of entitlement to free software. Which, for the first couple hundred lines of code, I could see giving it away without much heartburn. But after that, there is some serious time invested (it would be interesting to approximate the amount of work performed by depressing the keyboard keys over thousands upon thousands of lines of code and equate that some other tangible form of labor).

I've always hated a pure subscription based model (from the consumer standpoint). I have too many hobbies and bounce back and forth, sometime years at a time. I get heartburn paying for something I'm not using at the moment (even if this displeasure is self inflicted... no one ever said consumers are rational). Given the nature of tuning, the long cycles involved, a subscription only service would really burn people up.

I've been lurking here for quite some time now. About once a year, my interests peaks again and I download the trial version to see if I want to purchase the full license. In all reality, we're not talking that much money, I get that. But the software could be selling for $10, and the fact that I would have to pay 100% to upgrade would still be a deterrent. And I obviously don't represent the entire population.

I'll have to see if I can get this installed some time this week and then start the clock on a purchase decision over again...

[Poorboyz]

Now what I can agree with you on is existing customers shouldn't have to pay as much for the new version as new customers. Even Microsoft understands that by selling upgrade versions for cheaper than full-install versions of their OSs and Office Suites.

I was going to say the same after reading MeanMussys post. I agree that owners of BE2010 shouldn't have to pay full price to upgrade to 2012. I do not own BE 2010. I just bought my first version of BE which is 2012 and I can see both points of view and agree with both. Personally I will wait untill BE2012 can no longer do what I need before having to buy the most current version at full price BUT I would upgrade before I absolutely needed to IF I could get the current version for a upgrade cost instead of full price.

This is just my opinion.

[86GT]

Wow lots said. I am a person of few words. I hate typing LOL

As for the new version yes it is packed with lots of new features. Yes it will get new features as time goes on. Yes bug fixes will be the same as before. If i can duplicate the error i will fix it and get it posted quickly.

I have warned people as they purchased that 2012 was on its way out within x time. So those that bought a month before were warned on the forum and by e personally as they purchased. It was up to the purchaser to accept 2010 or wait for 2012.

I am seriously thinking of putting a x mas special out there for those that would like to upgrade. I will give them something like a 2 week period to do so. I did this same sort of thing going from 2009 to 2010.

Pricing is always a tricky thing. I try my hardest to be fair and price everything at a point that it is affordable to the common user. At the same time i can not do things at a loss for my time and efforts.

The big change in 2012 is that it will support a database of strategies and calibrations. This database is going to be geared more towards the shops and people who tune on a daily bases. The first release will have all V8 Mustangs from 95-04. The price structure has yet to be determined. This structure is more or less going to be based on tokens. Each car will consume a token. Keep in mind the BE as we all know it will remain the same for the DIY. My goal here is to make the software that the dyno tuners use available to the DIY. This is kind of what Microsoft and Mac did. They gave there software and hardware to the schools and then when these kids grew up they knew these two like the back of there hands and made all others obsolete. I would love it if BE did that but that is just a pipe dream LOL

[crakrz]

Well as a previous BE2010 registered user, I have upgraded at full purchase price to BE2012. And if Clint comes out with a Christmas special price, does that mean I should now get upset? Maybe some will say yes.
Well Clint, you won't get any complaints from me. Your service and back up support is second to none and your prices are fair and reasonable. I chose to upgrade, no one had to twist my arm. In fact BE2010 was working perfectly fine for me, it was just that I wanted the flexibility that the dongle provided and I happily paid for the convenience.
I don't know Clint personally, but I do worry that if too many people complain, we will no longer get prompt service, bug fixes, prompt reply emails,- .......hang on, this is starting to sound like another software option that we all know.
If BE2010 is working fine for you, then I imagine you have no reason to upgrade, so you don't have to.
But the option is there for you to chose. New users of course would jump on board to the newest available.
I can only speak on behalf of a few recent Australian converts to the QH and BE. This has given us a much more economical tuning choice over SCT and Sniper. So we are very appreciative to have this available to us.
Keep up the good work Clint.
-Craig

[Poorboyz]

Well as a previous BE2010 registered user, I have upgraded at full purchase price to BE2012. And if Clint comes out with a Christmas special price, does that mean I should now get upset? Maybe some will say yes.
Well Clint, you won't get any complaints from me. Your service and back up support is second to none and your prices are fair and reasonable. I chose to upgrade, no one had to twist my arm. In fact BE2010 was working perfectly fine for me, it was just that I wanted the flexibility that the dongle provided and I happily paid for the convenience.
I don't know Clint personally, but I do worry that if too many people complain, we will no longer get prompt service, bug fixes, prompt reply emails,- .......hang on, this is starting to sound like another software option that we all know.
If BE2010 is working fine for you, then I imagine you have no reason to upgrade, so you don't have to.
But the option is there for you to chose. New users of course would jump on board to the newest available.
I can only speak on behalf of a few recent Australian converts to the QH and BE. This has given us a much more economical tuning choice over SCT and Sniper. So we are very appreciative to have this available to us.
Keep up the good work Clint.
-Craig

I don't think anyone is complaining, but just stating that most software makers have a "upgrade" option for those that already have a full registered version at a lesser price than someone buying the software for the first time. I myself just bought BE2012 on Thursday and am waiting on my dongle. I'm a first time user and buyer. No complaints from me and I'll say it again, just my opinion. If I need to upgrade at full price to BE 2015 than I will, but would wait a little longer to do if there wasn't a discounted upgrade cost, that's all.

[cgrey8]

There'd be no reason to upgrade unless there's either a feature in the newer version making the upgrade price worth it OR there's a newly found bug in your version that is or will be fixed in the newer version.

I don't know this for sure, but I'm betting if your need to upgrade is based on a bug you reported in a no-longer-supported version of BE, you could work out some kind of discount. I don't want to speak for Clint on that one, but he's usually pretty reasonable on a case-by-case basis and it wouldn't surprise me at all if yall worked out something fair to both parties based on some unusual circumstance like that.

[Poorboyz]

$200 might not be much to some of you guys but I would not have spent that on BE/EA if I didn't feel it was worth it and or Clint was not going to support it. I did my research and every possible avenue I searched it led me back to one place....Clint I know I got the best cause I did my research.

[86GT]

Thanks

I have spent so much time on this it is not funny. I am glad it has help many people. That is the single most up lifting thing.

My next goal is to read and write to the newer PPC mustangs from 05+

[MeanMussy]

The price structure has yet to be determined.

Ok, I'm confused again. Is the pricing on the website ($200 for BE/EA hardware license) for 2010 only or does it apply to 2012 as well?

[86GT]

BE cost is 100 dollars for software and 50 dollars for the dongle. The free strategies are just that free. There are people that charge for their strategies like Adam and Derek. What they charge is up to them. There is also a database of strategies which will cover a bunch of calibrations. What this database cost is not up to me since it does not belong to me.

Again for the do it yourself tuner the cost is the same is it 100 for the software and 50 for the dongle.

[MeanMussy]

Ah, I gotcha now. Sorry about the confusion.

[Tipo874]

Won't run in a Virtual Machine.

I upgraded, without knowing it was a major upgrade, and now it won't start as I'm running it on Win 7 in a VMware Fusion virtual machine on a MacBook. :(

Thank heavens for MacOS Time Machine, so that it is a snap to revert my "PC" to what it was on Dec 12.

Clint has now lost me as a paying customer.

I have paid for BE and EA twice, once when I used a Windows laptop and once when I had to buy a new license to move to the MacBook, but this is apparently the end of it.

Edit:

Apparently it did not upgrade to BE2012, it was an upgrade from BE2010 Build 35 to Build 38 that broke this, which is even worse than having the BE2012 upgrade break it.

[cgrey8]

Did it say anything to indicate it wasn't working because it was on a VM?

If this was something new as of BE2012, that I wouldn't feel so bad about particularly if this was noted in the release notes of what's new. Even though disabling software isn't a feature, that detail should be noted as a change.

What I have a hard time with is loosing functionality in the same version of software due to an update. I'd be pissed about that too. And good for you for keeping backups. It's nice to know up to version 35 can still be used on VMs.

[Tipo874]

Did it say anything to indicate it wasn't working because it was on a VM?

Yes, see:
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=19167

[cgrey8]

This is one of those areas where Clint and I don't agree. I would've advised him to make this change as of BE2012 and not change BE2010. But I'm not the owner of the software. All I can do is share my opinion and perspective. Best I can say is it is what it is. I'll have to leave the details of how this gets handled between you and Clint.

Since I don't run on a VM, I don't know what the exact behavior is. But one thing I would hope Clint is doing is allowing unlicensed versions of BE to still run on a VM. There's no reason to disable BE from running in a free capacity on VMs.

I will restate I understand why this is being disabled. But I'm still not convinced that the ends justify the means particularly with the popularity of Linux on laptops increasing. I've been using Ubuntu on my work machine for a few years now and I only run my Windows machine at work when I do something that can't be done in Linux. At some point, I could see migrating to Ubuntu on a personal laptop, but if the EEC tuning tools I need prevent that, then I'm married to Windows.

I wonder if a compromise for this could be for Clint to allow BE/EA to run on VMs but only run with hardware dongles, not licensable via softwre? No software licensing is being avoided by the use of a VM when combined with a hardware dongle license. I would also hope BE would still at least launch and be useful in its free capacity on a VM.

[EDS50]

The only thing I will comment on is the fact that I see both sides of the stick with pricing and this and that and what should be and what shouldnt be. The one thing I dont see anyone complaining about is when they have a problem who is the one to immediately resolve the issue personally? Clint himself is. Not some helpdesk, not some generic customer service, not some fool in pakistan or asia (no offense) or where ever that you cant understand; its the man himself. I cant even keep track of how many times before during and after Clint's 9-5 career he has helped me and supported me in any way that was needed. He has taken his personal time to dial in through remote assistance while he was eating dinner taking time away from his family and loved ones to help me. I know for a fact I am not the only one he has done this for and even though I may have a better (for a lack of better words) relationship with him since I work with him a little closer than most, he doesnt play favorites and treats everyone on the same level. When my hard drive crashed I didnt get any special treatment and paid the same as anyone else would have for a new dongel. When my laptop got stolen recently I again paid just like anyone else would have for a replacement again. Should I have gotten a break? Maybe, maybe not. Some people feel like they have entitlement and think "oh I paid for it once so I should get a hook up." It doesnt always work that way. If your new metallica cd gets scratched or stolen is lars going to send you a new copy because you paid for it already, hell no....lol. Well same rule applies here. So $50 here $100 there, so what? We are not in this hobby to save money and we all need to sit back and reflect on Clints hard work and time spent away from his family to provide us with what he has and appreciate the time he has spent with all of us individually to help us or what ever through the day or through the night for sometimes hours at a time that he never asked a penny for or compensation for. All in all, the free support we get from Clint himself at the expense of his job and more importantly personal time and family time is worth the small price we pay for what we have and we should be more appreciative and thankful for it. The same thing applies to the strategy dis-assemblers and bin hackers and owners like Adam and Derek that put their time into doing what they do and making available what they do and offering it at what I think is a very reasonable price considering the time invested to do so. Sorry for the rant and this is just my oppinion but I think we all need to reflect on what we get from these fine individuals for the small fees we pay for them. Not to mention a FREE website and community thanks to Jon Newman who pays for this out of his own pocket where we can all come and help each other with our diy tuning and support each other. With everything we have available for what we pay this one or that one for services rendered is a drop in the bucket for what we get for free because nothing in this life is more valuable to any human being than time. And time is what at the end of the day is what we are spending with each other in one way shape or form to help each other out when needed. End Rant

[Cougar281]

Tippo874 & cgrey8, if you want to run in a VM, get the dongle. That's part of why it was integrated with BE & EA. I got the dongle as soon as it was available, and BE works great in my VM (Just waiting for the strategy to become available to work with the dongle ). That was one thing that annoyed me last year when BE updated and broke my strategy. Adam wouldn't re-key the strategy becasue I had BE running in a VM (BE didn't break or need to be re-keyed, just the strategy due to internal formatting changes). I was really ticked at this, but Adam and i had a fairly long conversation, and when he mentioned the possibility of the dongles, I stuck it out and here we are. In the mean time, I had reverted to build 18 of BE which worked with the strategy file I had so I have been able to do at least something with BE. I think its a great compromise. You can get the hardware dongle so you can run in a VM, or move to a new PC or whatever without messing with license codes, or if you want, you can still get the software license if you have a dedicated tuning PC. I run BE in a VM becasue I don't have an extra laptop to dedicate to BE, and I need to keep it seperate from EFILive as they both use FTDI drivers, and last time I tried using two different brand devices that used the same base (prolific) driver, it ended very badly (niether device worked and I had to rip out every trace of the drivers and re-install). To be honest, I think your reasons for running BE in a VM are even more valid than mine (Linux PC running Win VM for BE & Mac {yuck} running Win VM for tuning).

Personally, I'd much rather have the hardware dongle than a software license that's tied to my PC. If my PC dies and I wasn't able to transfer the license first, then I'd have to buy another license. The hardware dongle does away with that plus gives portability. Now we just need a verson of BE/EA that doesn't need to be installed and can run off a USB drive.

The only problem with the dongle is it's so darn small lol! I keep it in an old breath mint box so it can't easily fall down a crack!

[Tipo874]

Why should I have to get a f*king dongle to get an update?

The version I have is fully licensed, it is not some unlicened special VM version. I had to generate the challenge and mail to Clint to get the keys, and I have no idea if the VM can be moved to another system or not. I am perfectly happy to run it on the MacBook. I have no windows systems, and I have win7 on vmware fusion *only* because the EEC tuning software is not available on MacOS.

Dongles and hardware locked software is so 1980:s, and although I have lots of paid for software, no one is doing that anymore.

It is too bad, I think the software is great, but the licensing model is outright customer hostile.

Let's say I buy BE & EA, with or without dongle. Why should I have to pay for the software again if the system gets stolen or run over by a truck? Every other licensed software I own either use no licensing keys at all (MacOS), or a software key, Win7, Adobe CS4, Amadeus, AutoPano Pro, VMware Fusion 4.

[cgrey8]

Cougar, I didn't realize BE was already setup to allow running inside a VM when using the dongle. That solves almost all the issues for new users in BE2012. At least now I know if I ever do decide to run Ubuntu from a laptop and run Windows in a VM, I can still use BE and EA...I just need to buy dongles to do it.

But I still think making this change to BE2010 in the middle of its release via an update file was a mistake particularly when the functionality was there before, no public notice in the EULA or any other public form that VMs never were allowed from the beginning, and no dongle option to upgrade legitimate users for free doesn't exist.

Add to that, there's probably liability issues with the a supplier of software breaking existing license agreements with their users in the form of denial of service without 1st notifying/warning the user of new policy change going into affect with the pending update BEFORE applying the update that implement the change...thus giving the user the chance to opt out of the new agreement, stop the update's installation, and stick with what they have under their current license agreement. While I doubt anybody would actually lawyer-up for a BE license because of this, I suspect the infraction is actionable if someone was that spiteful.

It's these sticky situations why I don't envy entrepreneurs. The customer/money side of business is something I just don't have the stomach for. But I think it's great that there are people out there like Clint that are willing to deal with it.

[Tipo874]

C
But I still think making this change to BE2010 in the middle of its release via an update file was a mistake particularly when the functionality was there before, no public notice in the EULA or any other public form that VMs never were allowed from the beginning, and no dongle option to upgrade legitimate users for free doesn't exist.

Clint knew all the time that I was installing it in VMware fusion VM running Win 7.

This is his reply (from March 2009) when I asked about that:

"yes they will work on the VM ware but the licenses are not transferable."

[86GT]

The stopping of VMs was in the release notes before downloading. Like Chris mentioned. I don't feel it is right either, but when people share VM's why should I be the one out. That is flat out stealing. I am not saying that is what is happening here but but to let people know the VM stuff had to be stopped all because of a select few that had BE and 4-5 paid for strategies and then that VM was passed around.

Yes the Dongle version of 2012 supports the VMs. The software license is still disabled in VMs. Believe me i did not want to cause you havoc. I want to be as easy as possible to use the software.

[cgrey8]

Usability and security will always be at odds with each other. And quite often, usability takes hits in the name of security...sometimes the hits are reasonable, sometimes they are in vain. In this case since I don't know all the details of the situation, I can't say for sure. But because there were versions of BE and the licensed def files already being distributed, making an update doesn't stop that behavior. The perps will simply continue distributing the VM with the version of BE that still works on the VM. Now they may be forever stuck on that version with no bug fixes in the def or BE, but I suspect it's functional enough that they won't care and will continue stealing. Afterall, if the software was worth copying in BE2010 v.35, it probably still is and will continue to be for a LONG time.

That being said, are you diffusing a bomb with the update in BE2010 after the bomb has already gone off? I tend to think so. The effort isn't likely to stop the bad behavior or even slow it down and you end up hurting the legitimate folks that want to do right. That's why I tend to disagree with the decision to implement this change in BE2010.

I'd like to think if you (Tipo) and Clint discussed this (offline via email) without emotions flaring that the two of you could work something out to satisfy the situation. But in order for that to happen, you both are going to have to be reasonable and understanding of each others situations.

[Cougar281]

Usability and security will always be at odds with each other. And quite often, usability takes hits in the name of security...sometimes the hits are reasonable, sometimes they are in vain. In this case since I don't know all the details of the situation, I can't say for sure. But because there were versions of BE and the licensed def files already being distributed, making an update doesn't stop that behavior. The perps will simply continue distributing the VM with the version of BE that still works on the VM. Now they may be forever stuck on that version with no bug fixes in the def or BE, but I suspect it's functional enough that they won't care and will continue stealing. Afterall, if the software was worth copying in BE2010 v.35, it probably still is and will continue to be for a LONG time.

That being said, are you diffusing a bomb with the update in BE2010 after the bomb has already gone off? I tend to think so. The effort isn't likely to stop the bad behavior or even slow it down and you end up hurting the legitimate folks that want to do right. That's why I tend to disagree with the decision to implement this change in BE2010.

I'd like to think if you (Tipo) and Clint discussed this (offline via email) without emotions flaring that the two of you could work something out to satisfy the situation. But in order for that to happen, you both are going to have to be reasonable and understanding of each others situations.

Excelent point. Changing the license model to disable VM use unless a hardware key is used in 2012 is fine IMO, but personally, I agree that changing 2010 to disable usage in a VM was a bad move. As pointed out, it's as simple as the 'bad apples' not updating and continuing to pass around the version that still works. It's simply not going to stop that which has already started, it'll just prevent future abuse. Really, there's no way to stop those that are out. You could have put in a 'poison pill' that not only disables the VM use, but munches the strategy defenition, but as pointed out, simply rolling back would fix that issue and off they go. By making the move to disable the VM use in 2010, you're just ticking customers that, in Tipo's case for example, use a Mac and MUST run it in a VM (Although I don't understand the draw to the Macs... They're overpriced PC's running a restrictive OS, IMO, but hey, to each their own ).

Personally, I don't get why anyone would bother ripping BE off anyway... It's very fairly priced, IMO, and works very well. Now $CT, I can understand... I don't nessicarily think it's right, but I can understand. Their software is WAAAAAY overpriced for what you get. I think I have less into BE & Moates than I would if I went $CT. Plus, I can burn my tune to a chip, swap my QH for the chip and tune another FBFG2-based car with my QH... To do that with $CT, you'd have to buy another flasher for $250+, plus I think you'd need another vehicle license, so after purcahising the software, you then have to spend probably $300 minimum for each additional vehicle you want to tune. It's been a long time since I actually looked at their pricing, but it was stupid. When you compare the cost and power of a QH with BE to $CT, $CT's stuff is worth like $10.

[86GT]

The intent to stop the VM's was not to prevent those that have figured out license loop holes but to stop it from being so readly avaliable. I can not stop the thieves but then again I have made others upset in doing so. Like chris said it is a balance i must try to do.

The fact that i make the software as cheap as possible and then to have someone slap me in the face by passing the VM around and then telling me about it was just over the top. I was so upset over it, i want to hang up the towel on BE. I just simply could not do that with the amount of time i have in this project. For those that want to remain back a version or 2 and be able to keep in a VM so be it.

Dont get me wrong VM has it places like yours on a MAC. Its those 10% of the people that are using the VM for non lagit purposes that make me and other software vendors upset.

Send me an email and we can work something out for your MAC

[Tipo874]

The intent to stop the VM's was not to prevent those that have figured out license loop holes but to stop it from being so readly avaliable. I can not stop the thieves but then again I have made others upset in doing so. Like chris said it is a balance i must try to do.

The fact that i make the software as cheap as possible and then to have someone slap me in the face by passing the VM around and then telling me about it was just over the top. I was so upset over it, i want to hang up the towel on BE. I just simply could not do that with the amount of time i have in this project. For those that want to remain back a version or 2 and be able to keep in a VM so be it.

Dont get me wrong VM has it places like yours on a MAC. Its those 10% of the people that are using the VM for non lagit purposes that make me and other software vendors upset.

Send me an email and we can work something out for your MAC

I understand your frustration, and I guess I have calmed down a bit since yesterday.

How much work would it be to port BE & EA to MacOS?

I have no idea if there is a market for that, but I would not hesitate paying for the software a third time if I could run it natively. I would even get the dongle then

Where can I get the BE2012 Release Notes? If the upgrade is worth the $$$ then I just might it anyway, although I don't use it much these days. The EFI is pretty well dialed in, there's just a bit of low speed bucking I would like to eliminate, then I'm done.

[evan9r]

I think the QH is a great idea and product for those that want to tune their cars on their own and not be subjected to the higher price of a race shop.

What I dont agree with is the software situation that everyone has been talking about in this thread.
Never have I ever bought software that I could not back up in case my computer crashed or was stolen until now. I purchased BE/EA 2009 in 2009 and now I have a new computer and I can not run the software I purchased in 2009 on this computer without buying a new license. I feel I should not have to spend more of my hard earned money to line someones pockets just to re load software I have already paid for! Nor would I pay to update software that is only a year or 2 old just for new "features". When I updated to Windows 7 it cost only ~40$ and I think this is far from a Microsoft operating system here.

IMHO this is not a good business practice. Like someone else said, word will get out. If it were me and software development costs were killing me, and I was worried about VM's, or piracy, I would incorporate the cost into the hardware and charge more initially. But what do I know I am just a poor college kid.

[dsblk93gt]

The only thing I wish is that PAYING repeat customers like myself would get some kind of a discount. I even repaid after having my desktop crash on me and no complaints. I may just stick with BE2010 for now but this newest one sounds nice.

[rottenpuppets]

The part that bothers me with the new version is that I put $130 in initially, now I have to put in another $130+$60 just so "I'm not screwed" if I decide to move to another computer? With a USB dongle lol I have not used one of those since Quark Express in the 90s. Talking about losing my confidence by presenting me with completely dated technology that just screams "i want money". I worked with a software company for years that used dongles, and know the profit margin on those. It's just another cash grab on your users.

Add in no upgrade discount and you have an ever shrinking marketplace. If they made a version every year and charged $29.99 a year for BE2012, 2013, 2014, etc. it would be much better off. Steady income from the product, etc. I pay yearly for a half dozen or more programs and scripts that I run my Mustang Forums on. And I'm fine with it. Cost is reasonable and it keeps me in the latest version. vbSEO/Garage/Wiki and a bunch of others all getting my money regularly. Why? They spend their time on building the product and the customers gladly pay yearly to be in the loop.

Adobe makes you register and unregister software so if you need to move computers it's a fairly simple process and requires the unregistration of one machine, to install on another. IMO that's the best model if you want to be that controlling (and rightfully so, it's their hard work). That way if you buy a new computer you can still enjoy the software you paid for.

I want to move from my laptop back to my Netbook but I would have to pay out for the same software to do so? That's crazy talk. Why is the de-auth of a machine in the software then if we can't really do it?

Recently I finally had time to get back into working on my stangs tune. Baby and life made a detour for the past year or so. Laptop is now more of a house computer but I will have to drag it out to the car every time I want to work on the tune now because I can't just uninstall it from there and reinstall on my netbook.

BE2012? Does not work on my netbook at all at the most recent version I d/l'd last night so until it's a functional product I can't buy it anyways. Every time it loads, updater will crash the software and I don't have the time to troubleshoot someone else's work for free when they want me to pay for every step of the way.