CBAZA (T4M0) and EDIS

vristang · Post by **vristang** » Wed Dec 07, 2011 4:00 pm

I'm just starting to look into this.

I would like to use junkyard parts, and keep it cheap.
The idea is that I will have more room for intakes if I get rid of the distributor on my 2.3.

Has anyone does this?
Any advice?
Any resources or links?
(search here has returned a ton of 'fluff'... but I will try it again later)

Thanks,
jason

vristang · Post by **vristang** » Sun Dec 11, 2011 11:45 pm

Been reading as much as I can on it, but it seems that not many folks have converted to EDIS... and those that have haven't posted much info on the actual swap (parts, tune changes, etc)...

I just glanced through the CBAZA definition from Sailorbob, and only found one scalar that looks like it would need to be changed:
IGN_TYPE - Set to HDR_DIS = High Data Rate Distributorless

Edit:
I also found this...
CCDSW = Calibration Switch to select Computer Controlled
Dwell. (1 = Computer Controlled Dwell; 0 = TFI Controlled Dwell)

Is this correct?

Since the info that is out there is somewhat scattered, I will try to dump some of it here...
http://www.dainst.com/info/edis/edis.html

http://www.bgsoflex.com/mjl/mjl_edis_summary.html

Shaker666 · Post by **Shaker666** » Tue Dec 27, 2011 2:47 pm

There's a lot of information on EDIS implementation on this forum and many have done this. Keep digging. Have you read this thread?

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1949&hilit=Explorer+EDIS&start=120

vristang · Post by **vristang** » Tue Dec 27, 2011 4:15 pm

Shaker666 wrote: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1949&hilit=Explorer+EDIS&start=120

I have... and I keep going back through it... there's a lot to take in there...

Right now, it looks like the CID sensor may be the toughest part to sort out since I am doing this on a 4-cyl block.
I've only found reference to 1 4-cyl CID sensor, but that was supposedly only used on a California model 2.3 Ranger.
I'm sure I can get something to work, but I haven't had much time to look into it just yet... too much work, not enough play...

Shaker666 · Post by **Shaker666** » Wed Dec 28, 2011 12:21 pm

Well, I've got it working with GUFB on my '79 Bronco that came with a 400M, so fire away with any questions you've got. The link I had in the last post has a response that includes the scalar setup necessary to enable the EDIS. Hopefully it's close enough to the CBAZA implementation to not be a pain.

EFI-Unlimited · Post by **EFI-Unlimited** » Mon Jan 02, 2012 3:22 pm

I'm fairly certain cbaza won't support EDIS. I went through this with Jerry Wroblewski several years ago, and he concluded from the cbaza strat book that it was not supported.

Brian
EFI-Unlimited

vristang · Post by **vristang** » Mon Jan 02, 2012 3:33 pm

Shaker666 wrote:Well, I've got it working with GUFB on my '79 Bronco that came with a 400M, so fire away with any questions you've got. The link I had in the last post has a response that includes the scalar setup necessary to enable the EDIS. Hopefully it's close enough to the CBAZA implementation to not be a pain.

What did you use for a CID sensor?

If Jerry W. has a copy of the CBAZA strategy document, then I would really like to speak with him... Could you put me in contact?
From what I'm seeing, it looks like the scalars are there in CBAZA...

Shaker666 · Post by **Shaker666** » Mon Jan 02, 2012 4:33 pm

vristang wrote:What did you use for a CID sensor?

The CID sensor is the cam sync sensor, I'm assuming. Since the 400M is essentially a 351 Cleveland engine, I had to do some more work than I'd need to for a SBF application. The cam sync sensor driveshaft and gear from a late model V6 Winstar van, coupled with the housing from a '96 5.0 Explorer resulted in a perfect fit for the Cleveland engine.

The VR sensor can be taken from literally anything, I think I'm using one from a Mazda mounted on home fabricated brackets (thanks Indy2000).

I used the coil packs from a late model Mustang and grabbed the EDIS8 harness and connectors from a '93 Lincoln.

TwistedTwins · Post by **TwistedTwins** » Thu Jan 12, 2012 12:59 am

vristang wrote:If Jerry W. has a copy of the CBAZA strategy document, then I would really like to speak with him... Could you put me in contact?

X2!

vristang · Post by **vristang** » Thu Jan 12, 2012 3:57 pm

I think I found a CID sensor that will drop in... may be the most expensive part I need at $80 though

EDIT: just saw the core charge of almost $50...

Cardone Remanufactured - Camshaft Synchronizer
http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detai ... &ppt=C0364
P/N - 30S2401
$79.99

Shaker666 · Post by **Shaker666** » Thu Jan 12, 2012 4:01 pm

vristang wrote:I think I found a CID sensor that will drop in... may be the most expensive part I need at $80 though
EDIT: just saw the core charge of almost $50...

Cardone Remanufactured - Camshaft Synchronizer
http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detai ... &ppt=C0364
P/N - 30S2401
$79.99

You could go that route or you can go with a junkyard part for much cheaper. The cam sync sensor is extremely simple and I've not had a single issue with my junkyard contraption for several years. Mine is used in a serious 4x4 that sees a lot of heavy duty use through water, mud, etc. as well.

vristang · Post by **vristang** » Thu Jan 12, 2012 5:47 pm

Don't get me wrong, if I can find one of these at the local yard I'll be all over it like stink on...

But in the last couple years, I don't recall ever seeing one in the j/y.

If I can avoid fabrication I need to. The simpler the installation of hardware is, the less time it will take to make the conversion, and the car is a daily driver.
It needs to be a weekend project.

Shaker666 · Post by **Shaker666** » Thu Jan 12, 2012 6:05 pm

RockAuto?

decipha · Post by **decipha** » Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:46 pm

i have a cbaza ecu running edis in my 95 supercoupe ??

what are you having trouble with?

vristang · Post by **vristang** » Fri Jan 13, 2012 1:34 am

The biggest challenge at this point is finding time to research and hit the junk yard for parts...

Its very assuring to know that you have made this work.. thanks

kbernal1016 · Post by **kbernal1016** » Thu Feb 23, 2012 2:10 pm

Sorry, but Im new to this and have a pretty obvious question to ask.
I sure I already know the answer but Ill ask it anyway:

Whats the major benefit to converting to EDIS?

More precise timing control?
More clearance for aftermarket parts?

Yes, this my first post on EECTuning btw.

vristang · Post by **vristang** » Thu Feb 23, 2012 3:34 pm

kbernal1016 wrote:Whats the major benefit to converting to EDIS?

More precise timing control?
More clearance for aftermarket parts?

Yes on both.

My application is a 2.3 engine, where the intake manifold hangs over the top of the side mounted distributor.
If I remove the distributor, then I have MUCH more real estate to play with for the intake design...

kbernal1016 · Post by **kbernal1016** » Thu Feb 23, 2012 5:05 pm

Any other reasons besides the two?

I am contemplating piecing together an EDIS setup for my 95 CBAZA 5.0 and installing it once I know Binary Editor and EEC Analyzer pretty well.

vristang · Post by **vristang** » Thu Jul 26, 2012 10:46 am

So, I am going ahead with this conversion... and of course it needs to be done ASAP (meaning today)...

On the factory EDIS 2.3, they used a vane type crank trigger and cid trigger, both integrated into one sensor behind the crank pulley.
Will the the T4M0 accept the vane type crank trigger input?

If so, it will save me some time getting a 36-1 wheel mounted to the crank pulley, and fabricating a mount for the sensor...

vristang · Post by **vristang** » Thu Jul 26, 2012 11:16 am

Scratch that...
It looks like the ecu doesn't get an input for the crank signal... the crank signal just goes to the EDIS module.

There is an input for CID to the ecu though.
I'm still looking for what pin the T4M0 will expect to receive this signal?

EDIT:
Looks like Pin 24 on the T4M0 is where the CID input goes

Post by **cgrey8** » Thu Jul 26, 2012 11:32 am

From what I remember, the 2.3L DIS implementations were not EDIS as it was used later in Fords using the EDIS4/6/8 module but rather a TFI module that fired coil packs. So from the computer's standpoint, the EEC output the same exact signals it would to a gray TFI module and likewise expected the same inputs as a gray TFI module. You did still need the 2.3Ls cam sensor to tell the modified TFI/DIS module which cylinder pairs to fire when. What I don't remember is if these 2.3L factory TFI/DIS systems used a crank sensor or did everything via the cam sensor.

As all this relates to a T4M0, it seems if you can get all that original 2.3L TFI/DIS hardware and circuitry, you just configure the CBAZA for a gray TFI (default is black TFI module). And wire everything exactly as you would if it were a gray TFI distributor. Now what I don't know is if CBAZA supports the older gray TFIs. GUFx EECs obviously do.

vristang · Post by **vristang** » Thu Jul 26, 2012 12:39 pm

You are correct, the pics are from a DIS setup...

I need a 36-1 trigger wheel, which is taking more fab work than I had hoped.

Maybe a dumb question...
Is there a functional difference between a DIS Module and an EDIS Module?

vristang · Post by **vristang** » Thu Jul 26, 2012 12:51 pm

vristang wrote: Cardone Remanufactured - Camshaft Synchronizer
http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detai ... &ppt=C0364
P/N - 30S2401
$79.99

The Cardone part isn't available so went with another brand, but it will be at the parts store by 5pm today.

vristang · Post by **vristang** » Thu Jul 26, 2012 1:04 pm

Still looking for the answer on this...

Where should tooth number one be oriented in relation to TDC?
KIM, 4 cylinder car running on a T4M0...

Actually, let me rephrase...
What crank angle should tooth number one pass the sensor, in relation to TDC?
Due to my bracket for the sensor... the sensor location is fixed... but I can install the 36-1 on my pulley in any orientation I wish...

Now that I think about it...
How does the CID sensor need to be oriented?

vristang · Post by **vristang** » Fri Jul 27, 2012 3:01 am

Is the EDIS module expecting the signal at a certain crank angle?

I found this on the MS site...

4 cylinders ~90-120 deg

Does that mean anywhere between 90 and 120? At 90 or at 120... or what?

Maybe I am completely confused...

sailorbob · Post by **sailorbob** » Fri Jul 27, 2012 5:08 am

Position of VRS sensor in relation to cylinder #1 TDC

4 cyl - 90 deg BTDC
6 cyl - 60 deg BTDC
8 cyl - 50 deg BTDC
10 cyl - 26 deg BTDC

vristang · Post by **vristang** » Fri Jul 27, 2012 11:53 am

sailorbob wrote:Position of VRS sensor in relation to cylinder #1 TDC

4 cyl - 90 deg BTDC
6 cyl - 60 deg BTDC
8 cyl - 50 deg BTDC
10 cyl - 26 deg BTDC

Thank you Derek!

EFI-Unlimited · Post by **EFI-Unlimited** » Fri Jul 27, 2012 3:34 pm

http://www.dainst.com/info/edis/edis.html

Mike, you said earlier that you had a SC with a CBAZA strat running EDIS. I am curious to know more about the setup, and what you had to do to get it to work.

Brian
EFI-Unlimited

decipha · Post by **decipha** » Fri Jul 27, 2012 3:58 pm

i figured it out by accident one day when i accidentally swapped chips between my 95 & 91 supercoupes, i drove around like that a few days before i realized what i had done, even though both vehicles have the exact same injectors and maf, the fuel trims were no where near what they should have been, i concluded that they may have different clock speeds?

but in any case, it ran the edis fine

EFI-Unlimited · Post by **EFI-Unlimited** » Fri Jul 27, 2012 7:00 pm

decipha wrote:i figured it out by accident one day when i accidentally swapped chips between my 95 & 91 supercoupes, i drove around like that a few days before i realized what i had done, even though both vehicles have the exact same injectors and maf, the fuel trims were no where near what they should have been, i concluded that they may have different clock speeds?

but in any case, it ran the edis fine

Well, I have connected an EDIS module to a CBAZA PCM, and it ran fine, but I could not get the SAPW enabled, so the ignition advance was static at 10 degrees, and I didn't have the cam reference figured out, so, it was unsync'd sequential.

Point being, the car will run seemingly fine, but the EDIS and PCM are not talking, other than a PIP signal without a signature.

Can you confirm you had the system fully functional?

Also, isn't the 95 SC an EEC-V?

Brian
EFI-Unlimited

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