[FoxRodder]

I ran through 3rd gear a few times getting a baseline with my new vortech combination. Showed a max of about 7 psi

Right now its sporting a few tweaks to some of the idling functions but otherwise a dropped in 90mmLMAF transfer and 42lb settings.

I datalogged to try and keep track of what was going on. Highest load of 126 and loadx 160. MAF kg at 1232 at 5200 rpm. Lambse commanding 11.7 there. I know theres alot of tuning to do with getting those items sorted out but its not easy to make sense of. I've been going through searches to figure stuff out but its a slow and difficult process.

I kept hitting a wall a which felt like a rev limit but it felt early in the RPMs and I've never felt it before but my datalogs confirm that the highest rpm I made was 5500 so it can't be a rev limit. I was showing 13-1 AFR on first try and got mid high 12s the next tries. I later discovered that I blew off the cap I placed on the throttle body's outlet that would normally connect to the valve cover for PCV function(Have eliminated PCV because of oiling in intake plenum). I think this may have helped drop the AFR down to the 12s.

I'm running timing locked out with spout out at about 18 and plugs are gapped to .033 to .035 and they are 3923s one step colder. My buddy is teling me he was having similar breaking up and to gap them closer.

[Overdriven]

My car had a similar break up issue right around 5500 rpm. I replaced the MSD 6al box, plugs, wires, cap and rotor but nothing fixed the issue. I thought it was the tune but my AFR's were right at 11.8 to 1. Then I replaced the MSD pro billet distributor for a stock distributor I had on the shelf and boom, the car would pull like a raped ape up to 6500rpm (my rev limiter on the MSD). The MSD distributor had less than 500 miles on it.

I'd suggest swapping out your distributor and see where that takes you.

[Jetfast50]

i suggest going to a colder plug.

[FoxRodder]

Well getting things straightened out a bit. I am already running a supposedly 2 step cold from stock plug. Think its 3923. I gapped them down to .025 and that seems to be the ticket as it has not done that again. Some even suggested as low as .020 with stock ignition.

The other day I also figured out my lean issues because my tunes were not being read. A/F is in the 11s now. Next I am trying to set my timing safe. Been running spout out at 18. Have been getting popping in exhaust when shifting or dethrottling since changing everything. Not sure if its from the 42s, timing, or if I need dfso now

[dynotime]

Hello Are you using a Wide Band O2 or are you getting your Lambda reading from the Quarter Horse? If you do not have a Wide Band get a LM-2 that you can use Lambda and also Log

What do the Spark Plugs look like Brown, Gray, White. This very important What color is the Ground Tip on the Spark Plugs. Also check if there is any oil or black carbon on the last few treads of the plug. I will explain it if you respond to the Question.

Have you done any other mods? Any at all. The Stock Mustang Dist is good for well over 6500 rpm. The back fire does sound like Electrical but most of the time it is Fuel and you will just go for an electrical part change.

I also do not like the way Vortech uses there FMS, A 255 Lph pump would be better. and do the tuning in the ECU.

Your plug gap of .030-.020 is fine. But I really do not know why you would need to do that as you are running a small about of boost. 18 Deg locked in is fine.
I still say you have to get your fuel set up . Use the Wide band and data log it using Lambda. Shoot for .77 to .79 This will be fat but start there. 11.2-11.56

But remember this, only take short runs at WOT a 2k to 3k 3K to 4k then 4k to 5K and then 4K to 5.5K Read the data every time and if you hear any thing at all just take you foot off the Floor. I would rather pick my foot up than Engine Parts off the Ground. If you can get to a Load type Roller Dyno. This will save you time and Money.

[FoxRodder]

All my mods are in my signature. Running an lc1 wideband and not logging in lambda as I have not familiarized with it like typical ratio. Its in the high 11s ratio now that its recognizing my tune. I added a bit more to my base ol table so looking for about 11.5:1 next time I drive. Have not pulled plugs to read since its working fine after the regap.running a 255 gss340 pump no fmu. I don't like the idea of running 80 or more psi through an injector.

[dynotime]

First Please look at the Color of the plug's. I know you said that the Engine is now revving up but that is not the reason I am asking. ( your Choice )

Now I never said any thing about Running 80 PSI in your fuel system

When I was talking about .77-.79 this was in referring to Lambda readings.

Good luck

[Jetfast50]

what if the plugs look orange and glossy dynotime?

that plug is one heat range colder then stock, not two. if the tip is projected it's to hot. you have already figured this out with the hight rpm break up. closing the gap was a band~aid. keep fucking around and you will blow a head gasket very soon.

[dynotime]

That means the plug is not doing it's job and one of the Biggest reasons is that there are to many Treads of the plug sticking in to the Combustion chamber. No heat transfer from the plug to the head.

The only way the Ground Tip will Cool is if the Plug Treads are in Contact with the Head, If not the Treads are only going to see Combustion and will heat up very fast and no matter what plug heat range you put in, the plug will never do its job.
I Have seen this on more engines than I can count. On some heads there may be a Crescent Moon like shape on the Treads of black carbon, this is where there is no head/plug tread contact. This is very very bad. And will cause Pre ignition when the Ground tip starts to glow Red Hot. When it does it leave a greenish whiteish film on the ground Tip of the plug.
I think This person is using AFR heads and did not check to see how far the plugs stick out when the heads were off the car. After Market head's have to be Checked every time. Just saying. And yes I know AFR tell you to run a Spark Plug # but you still have to check.
Good Luck.

[BobCat]

All this talk of colder plugs and spark blow out at 7 psi is something I've NEVER ran across at that boost level.

Plugs will not fix your problem....... Most likely the blower belt is slipping it's ass off, there is a leak in the intake tract or the tune is way off.

Just my .02

[dsblk93gt]

I saw spark blow out but at 11psi with h/c/i. I had to go to a .027 gap. All stock iginition other than the plugs and wires. I prefer to keep it simple and the Ford stuff works well most of the time. The only way to read a plug for a WOT issue would be to make a WOT run then shut it down right after and coast then check the plugs.

[Jetfast50]

dynotime....you are trying tell me the cause of a plug being orange & glossy is because there are to much thread of the plug in the combustion chamber and that causes a no heat transfer issue?

your expliation of plugs is nosense....green plugs? really?

i understand your situation about the wrong long plug issue, but not your heat wrange explination.

That is surley not the case here.

Heat range is the problem. He needs a colder plug.

Any black carbon build up on any plug' is to rich.

orane plugs, if its not rust from water in the chamber, someone is runing off the shelf octane booster.

The glossy porcel. is because the plug is getting to hot, more then likely a projection tip plug.

[dynotime]

Think of it this way Does your Computer have a Main Processor might be a AMD or Intel
Does this Chip need to be Cooled? Why yes it does and how do we do that ?
We place the HEAT SINK on top of the Processor and then we put a fan on top to help the heat transfer. ( if you do not think this is true than take off you heat sink and fan from your Computer Processor). Think, Head is the Heat Sink, H2o is the (Fan removing heat from the head so the Plug (Processor)can do the intended job and not over heat.

This is what the head does for the plug it transfers the heat out of the plug, if the Plug does not have all the treads touching the head, the plug cannot transfer the heat, so no matter what plug you put in the heat will not transfer. Think Heat Sink not in Contact with Processor. YES there is some transfer of heat as long as you have a Spark Plug in the head but not at that part of the Plug that need's to transfer the most heat, so the more treads exposed the more the plug it self heat's up and then Cannot transfer that built up heat in time for the next Cycle and gets even hotter until the Ground Tip will Glow RED. Metal that is heated until it turns red will leave a behind a ash residue. (this ash is mostly white and will show some very faint green tint, back when gas was all gas this ash was only white.)

This only means that the plug is not doing it's Job.. and the plug is telling you by looking ugly.

Please read up on how Spark Plug's Transfer Heat, A hot plug keep's heat in the Combustion Chamber
A cold plug take's heat out of the Combustion Chamber. BUT Remember for a Plug to do the intended job the
Plug MFG's are hoping you have all the Plug Tread's in the Head (to Transfer heat)....... not in the Combustion Chamber (that will not allow Proper heat transfer).

Please do not Read any thing more that what I write, I never talked about Carbon Build up
Glossy Porcel ( are referring to the insulator tip )? Yes in some Case's the Insulator will get glossy or glazed, the Plug has gotten hot but has not over heated yet but close. I do agree with your statement of The plug is getting to hot. ( WHY ) I do agree that is some Cases an extended tip might be a problem but very rare and mostly in Circle track Engines that stay a high RPM for a very long long time, Nitro Engines,very high HP NOX Engines with very very high Combustion Chamber heat.
Thus back to heat transfer.
Think of it in like this would you want half of all the Spark Plug tread's in the Chamber? No..... so why would want any of them. If you really think a Spark Plug Can Transfer heat in some magic way with out fully touching all of its Treads to the head. God bless. and good luck.

Good luck.

[Jetfast50]

once again..... I know how a plug transfers heat.

I also understand the operating temparture and heat ranges of spark plugs as well.

ready to go to school?

I am talking about the manufactured heat range of a spark plug, and its heat ranges, for differnt types of octane, & load situations.

NOT the problems YOU have with YOUR thread reach issues.

I never said anything about the thread reach. any plug will become hotter the further it projects into the chamber. making a hot plug even hotter. I do not extend the spark plug further into the chamber with the reach, as this is wrong, and will cause any plug to run hotter because it is projected further in the flame front then needed. the hotter a plug the further the electrode and ground strap projects out of the head into the cylinder.

if i want a hotter plug i run a projection tip for this exact reason, not a plug with to much reach. if i need a colder plug, I run a recessed tip for this reason, not a shorter reach plug.

the "HEAT SINK" you speak of, is the ceramic porcelain in the plug. The porcelain is what draws the heat off the tip of the plug and into the threads in the head that is cooled by water or air.

the hotter the plug, the more the plug projects into the cylinder, the thinner the porcelain, and the ground strap.

the colder the plug, the more recessed the tip is, and the shorter & thicker the porcelain is to draw the heat off the tip, thicker and shorter the ground strap is as well.

the ash residue is from the cadmium reaching operating temp. when the spark plug in question reaches the operating temp it turns the cadmium to ash, letting you know the area of the ground stap that has reached operating temp. @ this point of operating temp, the plug burns the carbon off the porcelain, and the cadmium of the parts of the ground that have reached temp as well.

a plug that doesn't reach operating temp, will fowl over time, because it is not hot enough to clean itself.

When the spark plug tip temperature exceeds 1472*f, pre-ignition originating from the overheated insulator ceramic porcelain "HEAT SINK" will occur, the ground strap will start to glow until it reaches a temp witch the material flows into a liquid state and is the whisked away threw the exhaust valve with cylinder pressure.

no more ground strap, and the porcelain is next!

every heat range you step, hot or cold, you either add or subtract roughly 200* from the tip of the plug.

The spark plug firing end temperature must be kept low enough to prevent pre-ignition, but high enough to prevent fouling and promote self cleaning. This is called “Thermal Performance”, and is determined by the heat range selected.

The heat range of a spark plug is the range in which the plug works well, thermally. If the engine is to be operated at high RPM, under a heavy load, with higher cylinder pressures, and high temperatures for long periods of time, a colder heat range will be needed.



check yourself.

[decipha]

All this talk of colder plugs and spark blow out at 7 psi is something I've NEVER ran across at that boost level.

Plugs will not fix your problem....... Most likely the blower belt is slipping it's ass off, there is a leak in the intake tract or the tune is way off.

Just my .02

x2

[Jetfast50]

belt slip has nothing to do with blowing out spark.

the higher the pressure is in the cylinder the harder it is for the spark to bridge the gap.

never have I ever been able to run any engine with positive atmosheric pressure, on a stock NA style heat range plug on pump gas. it will detonate it's ass off every time.

cold fuel and cold plugs make the horse power that will win races. hot fuel and plugs is good for nothing but fire works!

a fire fly tune~up! thats all you are going to see from hot plugs and fuel, fire fly's out the exhaust in form of piston and spark plugs, all the while looking like fire~fly's in the night. it looks cool, but your motor sure doesn't think so ,as it lays down, because it detonated the piston's and plug's right out of the exhaust pipe!

keep running hot plugs and fuel, and you will keep hurting your motor, because you can not control the burn. the plug becomes a glow plug and wants to do it's own thing and run like a diesel 2 stroke instead of a 4 stroke.

[BobCat]

never have I ever been able to run any engine with positive atmosheric pressure, on a stock NA style heat range plug on pump gas. it will detonate it's ass off every time.

Then your experience is limited......All of the 4.6 and 5.0 ProCharger and Vortech street kits recommend a stock heat range plug for low boost applications.... I am not disagreeing that they "should" run the proper plug and we always change them out for a colder plug with tighter gap but there have been thousands of vehicles running stock plugs and a plug change will not fix this issue....

[NotchAbove]

I'd like to hear back from the original posted as to what is going on here.

Much of the discussion is a bit reaching without knowing all the facts. Could be a boatload of reasons a car breaks up at high RPM.

Could be as simple as a bad coil. Could be as simple as a bad tack, perhaps its 1000 rpm off, and he's hitting the limiter. I've seen stock tachs off that much.

All I'm saying is we really don't have any of the facts here. The correct plug is always the correct plug, but are you going to detonate an engine due to it, with 7psi, highly unlikely.

Even when getting into N20 you only start to drop to colder plugs after 100hp. 7psi doesn't even add that in most cases.

[Vortech347]

for rpm always trust what the log says. That's what the computer uses for data.. After 5000rpm my stock tach sucks. It will say 6500 at 6000.

why is the spout out? Doesn't that take away the purpose of tuning? That doesn't make sense.

spark gap. .035. Plugs... Run 24 heat range.

if rpm is checking out early it could also be valve float

[Jetfast50]

more then a good chance i've made more hp per cubic inch then anyone on this board. my experience's have taken me around the world building horsepower of every level. from the salt flats to the sand dune's of the middle east, and every nhra track between, i've been there.

my experience assures me you know nothing about horse power beyond a factory heat range spark plug, frankly that is not saying much for you.

keep practicing what you preach, but i got the horspower thing modulated.

[cgrey8]

There's a way to respectfully disagree with others' opinions while also sharing your own and then let all other readers decide for themselves what to make of it. But bashing each other on the forum only serves to get egos flared and none of us are bettered at that point. Find a way to agree to disagree without insulting each other.

[Jetfast50]

if that wasn't respectful enough, then I don't know what is!