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timinoakton
- Gear Head
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- Joined: Sat Apr 21, 2012 3:03 pm
Re: A9L2 base tune
Hmmm, I an not clear why external logic to override the 'puter when AC is on, but my pile doesn't have AC so it is immaterial. Looks like I just need to wire a relay to pin 41 so that it can open-collector pull the lead down to ground when the computer thinks it is time to cool. MUCH more elegant than the additional neck-sensor I added, and it deletes one more box from behind my dash. Yep, needs a relay just like any other thermostatic control would.
Cool - will validate that pin 41 pulls down when hot, and I'll move things around to support it.
Maybe I'll do this at the same time that I do HID lights, as that will bork the harnesses as well.
Good call - thanks!
timm
Cool - will validate that pin 41 pulls down when hot, and I'll move things around to support it.
Maybe I'll do this at the same time that I do HID lights, as that will bork the harnesses as well.
Good call - thanks!
timm
FFR Roadster - SBF from 1990donor, TFS-1 cam, GT40 heads, exploder intake & TB, 70mm TB, most everything ported/polished, cone filter, dieted wiring harness, Quarterhorse....
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decipha
Re: A9L2 base tune
tim.. the purpose in wiring the fan to come on with the a/c is so the high pressure side doesn't get stupid high in the condenser, the fan on will aid in keeping the condenser cool thus reducing excess pressure build up on the high pressure side
the easiest way to do that is to just wire a diode from the a/c clutch to the coil of the fan relay, the diode will prevent back-feeding the a/c clutch so it doesn't power up when the ecu turns the fan on, takes all of 15 minutes to wire up
the easiest way to do that is to just wire a diode from the a/c clutch to the coil of the fan relay, the diode will prevent back-feeding the a/c clutch so it doesn't power up when the ecu turns the fan on, takes all of 15 minutes to wire up
Re: A9L2 base tune
Thank you for the bin. I'm planning to try this cal on my buddy's '93 Cobra...well not the complete cal, just taking some changes that we could use from your cal. Then in couple weeks hopefully I will be able to try it on mine 89 302 engine (stroked to 331).
couple questions:
Why I don't want to keep Fan Min RPM at 1808RPM (A9L2=3600RPM)?
Why Rev limiters lowered to 6500RPM?
For the stroker engine I will have to change displacement from 302 to 331...Do I need to changes something else before first start? I'm using 60# injectors with 60# PRO-M MAF...The problem is, that I bought this setup used and it didn't come with MAF transfer function. So for now I could use 19# injector transfer functions if injector size is not changed in the cal, correct?
Thank you,
couple questions:
Why I don't want to keep Fan Min RPM at 1808RPM (A9L2=3600RPM)?
Why Rev limiters lowered to 6500RPM?
For the stroker engine I will have to change displacement from 302 to 331...Do I need to changes something else before first start? I'm using 60# injectors with 60# PRO-M MAF...The problem is, that I bought this setup used and it didn't come with MAF transfer function. So for now I could use 19# injector transfer functions if injector size is not changed in the cal, correct?
Thank you,
- JoeFFR5294
- Regular
- Posts: 127
- Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2012 12:14 pm
- Location: Hatboro SE Pennsylvania
Re: A9L2 base tune
vlydeka wrote: For the stroker engine I will have to change displacement from 302 to 331..
Yes
Do I need to changes something else before first start?
Is your timing set at 10 deg?
I'm using 60# injectors with 60# PRO-M MAF...The problem is, that I bought this setup used and it didn't come with MAF transfer function. So for now I could use 19# injector transfer functions if injector size is not changed in the cal, correct?
No change the tune to appropriate high and low slopes for 60lb inj. Use a predefined MAF table from EA as close as you can find for your Pro M based on its diameter?
Factory Five Roadster, 302 B cam, Explorer intake, Thumper Perf heads, 70mm Accufab TB, 80mm MAF, 12" Cold air pipe w/ small bend, 42lb FRP inj, AL9 Tweecer R/T BE & EEC Analyzer Best ET 12.898 @108.4
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decipha
Re: A9L2 base tune
u can take the a9l2 put in the maf transfer and injector values then go out and make powah, its as simple and easy as it gets
set both slopes to 60 the offset is in EA load in the prom 60# curve
set both slopes to 60 the offset is in EA load in the prom 60# curve
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PeteCleary
- Gear Head
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Re: A9L2 base tune
Thanks for the a9i cal2! I've moved to this to work on my junk.
363ci, TFS TW, Systemax II, 75mm tbod, SCT BA-3000, 1 3/4-2 1/2 exhaust., XFI236HR-14. Eventually cogged Novi 2K renegade setup.
Re: A9L2 base tune
Are you referring to ignition timing (10deg) or start of injection? I don't have a cooling system finished on my engine, so I wasn't able to start yet. Once it's running I will set ignition timing to 10deg with spout unplugged.JoeFFR5294 wrote:vlydeka wrote: For the stroker engine I will have to change displacement from 302 to 331..
Yes
Do I need to changes something else before first start?
Is your timing set at 10 deg?
I'm using 60# injectors with 60# PRO-M MAF...The problem is, that I bought this setup used and it didn't come with MAF transfer function. So for now I could use 19# injector transfer functions if injector size is not changed in the cal, correct?
No change the tune to appropriate high and low slopes for 60lb inj. Use a predefined MAF table from EA as close as you can find for your Pro M based on its diameter?
Could you please send me a MAF transfer function for 60# PRO-M?
Thank you guys for your help!
Re: A9L2 base tune
decipha wrote:u can take the a9l2 put in the maf transfer and injector values then go out and make powah, its as simple and easy as it gets
set both slopes to 60 the offset is in EA load in the prom 60# curve
Oh, I understand now....I found the MAF number in EA and injector high and low slopes I should set to 60, or low slope has to be higher?
For my buddy's cal, should I use cobra cal and take changes from A9L2 cal and apply it on cobra cal or should I use A9L2 cal and copy transfer function and injector slopes from his cobra cal?
We swapped the engine from cobra stock to 306 with bigger cam, aluminum heads and etc., but he still has 24lb injectors and MAF from stock setup. I would like to get his engine to run property and then we will change injectors to 48lb, add 255 fuel pump and etc.
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decipha
Re: A9L2 base tune
better off starting from the a9l2 the other stock binaries don't have the proper stabilized fuel patch so bad stuff could happen
- JoeFFR5294
- Regular
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- Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2012 12:14 pm
- Location: Hatboro SE Pennsylvania
Re: A9L2 base tune Its Great
decipha
Thanks for the calibration, my car runs noticeably better great throttle response. All I needed to do was insert my injector slopes and mess with my MAF curve and it runs great. It is also nice that you have the tables scaled so they cover load up to 200. In my test run WOT run I went 15 more mph at top end and my load went from 90 peak to 108.
So is my car running in Open Loop all the time now, so all A/F adjusting will be done through my MAF table?
Thanks for the calibration, my car runs noticeably better great throttle response. All I needed to do was insert my injector slopes and mess with my MAF curve and it runs great. It is also nice that you have the tables scaled so they cover load up to 200. In my test run WOT run I went 15 more mph at top end and my load went from 90 peak to 108.
So is my car running in Open Loop all the time now, so all A/F adjusting will be done through my MAF table?
Factory Five Roadster, 302 B cam, Explorer intake, Thumper Perf heads, 70mm Accufab TB, 80mm MAF, 12" Cold air pipe w/ small bend, 42lb FRP inj, AL9 Tweecer R/T BE & EEC Analyzer Best ET 12.898 @108.4
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decipha
Re: A9L2 base tune
no problem, i do what i can to help out
it shouldn't be running in open loop, it should be in closed loop below half throttle-ish unless you have bad hegos
you still tune it however you would elsewise
it shouldn't be running in open loop, it should be in closed loop below half throttle-ish unless you have bad hegos
you still tune it however you would elsewise
Re: A9L2 base tune
decipha wrote:better off starting from the a9l2 the other stock binaries don't have the proper stabilized fuel patch so bad stuff could happen
We installed quarterhorse chip today in X3Z module with A9L2 cal, all I changed was injector size (high&low) and MAF transfer function. We definitely can feel the difference between X3Z cal and A9L2.
Only it's idling at about 1100RPM. We didn't drive it that much, does it have to learn? Or I need to change something in the bin file?
- 89ragtopgt
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- Joined: Sun May 16, 2004 8:22 pm
- Location: Saskatoon Sask Canada
Re: A9L2 base tune
don't forget about the Fuel - Injector Offset vs Battery Voltage as in my case for 60Lb injectors it is much different that the stock for the a9L
306, powerdyne(gone)(novi 1000 sold) novi 2000 Out of fuel@5000rpm. 8" crank pulley, Moates Quaterhorse, SVT heads, kb pistons, Anderson B21 Cam, trick flow intake, 60lb inj, sct ba2800, long tubes, x pipe, 70mm tb, C.F clutch 355 gears, 1.7 roller rockers, A9L
Re: A9L2 base tune
decipha wrote:you need to close your throttle body stop
We did that, but it didn't help. I think the problem is the thermostat, he has 180F, it's little bit too low for EFI, correct?
Re: A9L2 base tune
Could you please post injector offset vs battery voltage numbers for 60lb? I will use 60lb on my engine...89ragtopgt wrote:don't forget about the Fuel - Injector Offset vs Battery Voltage as in my case for 60Lb injectors it is much different that the stock for the a9L
Also, for 24lb injectors, should I just pull numbers from X3Z cal?
- JoeFFR5294
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- Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2012 12:14 pm
- Location: Hatboro SE Pennsylvania
Re: A9L2 base tune
Have you followed this proceedure to set your idle?vlydeka wrote:We did that, but it didn't help. I think the problem is the thermostat, he has 180F, it's little bit too low for EFI, correct?decipha wrote:you need to close your throttle body stop
http://www.mustangspecialties.net/musta ... et-up.html
Factory Five Roadster, 302 B cam, Explorer intake, Thumper Perf heads, 70mm Accufab TB, 80mm MAF, 12" Cold air pipe w/ small bend, 42lb FRP inj, AL9 Tweecer R/T BE & EEC Analyzer Best ET 12.898 @108.4
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decipha
Re: A9L2 base tune
thats a stupid way of setting idle i recommend to not do it and stay away from that site as their info is garbage
i wrote an idle air 101 the math is wrong but the info is there
you can increase the ithbma - throttle body airflow scalar to reduce the idle, obviously idle isnt dialed in, do as the idle air 101 suggests
i wrote an idle air 101 the math is wrong but the info is there
you can increase the ithbma - throttle body airflow scalar to reduce the idle, obviously idle isnt dialed in, do as the idle air 101 suggests
Re: A9L2 base tune
I wouldnt say its garbage info or a stupid way of setting idle but it is how to set the idle with a Anderson PMS and not with a QH. I do like the and prefer the idle air 101 myself for starters.decipha wrote:thats a stupid way of setting idle i recommend to not do it and stay away from that site as their info is garbage
i wrote an idle air 101 the math is wrong but the info is there
you can increase the ithbma - throttle body airflow scalar to reduce the idle, obviously idle isnt dialed in, do as the idle air 101 suggests
1992 Mustang LX - 25.1c Chassis, Vortech Blown Dart 333 on Meth, Lentech Trans, TRZ Backhalf, A9P Tune, Moates QH/SL v1.9, BE, EA, TunerView
2003 Mach 1 - CoreTuning RYAK1/ZYA2 QH Tuned, Borla Atak Cat Back, Long Tubes/Off Road X-Pipe, Twin 65mm TB, JLT CAI, ICT Billet Intake Spacer, BMR Tubular K-Member and A-arms, Maximum Motorsports coil overs with Bilstein Suspension, Steeda Adj. Rear Upper/Lower Control Arms, QA1 Bump Steer, Steeda Short Throw Shifter, WOT Box, 315/35/17's.
2003 Mach 1 - CoreTuning RYAK1/ZYA2 QH Tuned, Borla Atak Cat Back, Long Tubes/Off Road X-Pipe, Twin 65mm TB, JLT CAI, ICT Billet Intake Spacer, BMR Tubular K-Member and A-arms, Maximum Motorsports coil overs with Bilstein Suspension, Steeda Adj. Rear Upper/Lower Control Arms, QA1 Bump Steer, Steeda Short Throw Shifter, WOT Box, 315/35/17's.
Re: A9L2 base tune
We tried to set idle from that website, but in order for engine not to die when IAC unplugged I had to open throttle a lot, when I plugged it in, idle went to 2000RPM.decipha wrote:thats a stupid way of setting idle i recommend to not do it and stay away from that site as their info is garbage
i wrote an idle air 101 the math is wrong but the info is there
you can increase the ithbma - throttle body airflow scalar to reduce the idle, obviously idle isnt dialed in, do as the idle air 101 suggests
Now we have A9L2 cal in it with displacement changed to 306, injectors slopes set to 24.8 and MAF transfer function from X3Z cal.
When idle set to 896, we idling about 1100RPM, when I set low idle to 550, then it drops to 900. Now even when it's idling at 1100RPM for couple minutes, engine speed drops and engine dies.
My buddy is freaking out
He has AC, but it's not on and he didn't eliminate EGR yet, but variables for this hardware I left unchanged in the cal. What is our next step to dial in low idle?
- JoeFFR5294
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- Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2012 12:14 pm
- Location: Hatboro SE Pennsylvania
Re: A9L2 base tune
decipha wrote:thats a stupid way of setting idle i recommend to not do it and stay away from that site as their info is garbage
I recommended it as a start just to get the car to idle, it was not to tune the idle I have found that some folks dont even know the proceedure involving disconnecting the IAC connector
i wrote an idle air 101 the math is wrong but the info is there
What is inaccurate because I was planning on using that to fine tune my idle?
you can increase the ithbma - throttle body airflow scalar to reduce the idle, obviously idle isnt dialed in, do as the idle air 101 suggests
Factory Five Roadster, 302 B cam, Explorer intake, Thumper Perf heads, 70mm Accufab TB, 80mm MAF, 12" Cold air pipe w/ small bend, 42lb FRP inj, AL9 Tweecer R/T BE & EEC Analyzer Best ET 12.898 @108.4
YouTube Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/joeembery#p/u
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http://s207.photobucket.com/albums/b...cpZZ1QQtppZZ16
YouTube Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/joeembery#p/u
My Pics:
http://s207.photobucket.com/albums/b...cpZZ1QQtppZZ16
- 89ragtopgt
- Regular
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- Joined: Sun May 16, 2004 8:22 pm
- Location: Saskatoon Sask Canada
Re: A9L2 base tune
This is what i have but it will vary for each vechicle.vlydeka wrote:Could you please post injector offset vs battery voltage numbers for 60lb? I will use 60lb on my engine...89ragtopgt wrote:don't forget about the Fuel - Injector Offset vs Battery Voltage as in my case for 60Lb injectors it is much different that the stock for the a9L
Also, for 24lb injectors, should I just pull numbers from X3Z cal?
15.94 0.2813
14.00 0.2813
13.00 0.4375
12.00 0.5938
11.00 0.6875
10.00 0.9063
9.00 1.0938
8.00 1.4063
7.00 2.0000
6.00 3.5000
5.50 7.0000
0.00 7.0000
slopes set each to 61.50
sctba2800 maf meter tweaked to suit
very close with my setup
Last edited by 89ragtopgt on Tue Jun 26, 2012 11:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
306, powerdyne(gone)(novi 1000 sold) novi 2000 Out of fuel@5000rpm. 8" crank pulley, Moates Quaterhorse, SVT heads, kb pistons, Anderson B21 Cam, trick flow intake, 60lb inj, sct ba2800, long tubes, x pipe, 70mm tb, C.F clutch 355 gears, 1.7 roller rockers, A9L
Re: A9L2 base tune
JoeFFR5294 wrote:Have you followed this proceedure to set your idle?vlydeka wrote:We did that, but it didn't help. I think the problem is the thermostat, he has 180F, it's little bit too low for EFI, correct?decipha wrote:you need to close your throttle body stop
http://www.mustangspecialties.net/musta ... et-up.html
Note if you insist on using the idle control ON with the PMS, then you need to go into the PMS and set the idle control ON before setting the idle rpm. Also, you should set the air bypass to 66%, the idle rpm in the pms to 700rpm (the lowest), and the idle timing to +15* as preliminary settings, before actually setting the idle rpm at the throttle body. These are suggestions, each car will vary.
Couple questions :)
How to turn idle control ON?
How to set the air bypass to 66%?
How to set idle timing to +15*?
what is air idle 101, where can I find more information about it?
Thank you,
Re: A9L2 base tune
Aussie Tickford Falcon 2002 AU3 T3 TE50. Factory 5.6 Stroker Windsor, NVXF5 22KB.
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decipha
Re: A9L2 base tune
it won't let me edit that post so...
heres a revised version with the math updated and a little more info
http://efidynotuning.com/ford/idleair101.htm
heres a revised version with the math updated and a little more info
http://efidynotuning.com/ford/idleair101.htm
Last edited by decipha on Fri Jun 29, 2012 1:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: A9L2 base tune
That's a great write up.
Aussie Tickford Falcon 2002 AU3 T3 TE50. Factory 5.6 Stroker Windsor, NVXF5 22KB.
Re: A9L2 base tune
Thanks for the link. I was reading and got couple questions:decipha wrote:it won't let me edit that post so...
heres a revised version with the math updated and a little more info
http://efidynotuning.com/idleair101.htm
1. Dial in fuel... what variables I'm calibrating to adjust fuel and how I know if it's ok? I have correct MAF transfer function and injectors slopes.
2. make sure your average rpm is within 50ish rpm of demanded idle
I don’t have RPM adders active, but my low idle is at 1100RPM with adjuster screw all the way out. Low idle speed set to 896RPM. What should I do if RPM delta is more than 200RPM not 50?
Update: I found that TB air flow is lower in A9L2 than X3Z (0.4 vs 0.55). I will change this value to 0.55, since I'm using 70mm TB. Is there something else I need to change.
I'm thinking to pull all the changes A9L2 vs A9l and apply it on X3Z, before I start dialing in throttle air. Would that be a good idea?
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decipha
Re: A9L2 base tune
adjust your fuel how you would elsewise
if you read the air 101 youll understand ithbma tb airflow has no relation to tb size
ITHBMA is the amount of air the ecu can not control!!!
the other binaries arent properly patched
if you read the air 101 youll understand ithbma tb airflow has no relation to tb size
ITHBMA is the amount of air the ecu can not control!!!
the other binaries arent properly patched
Re: A9L2 base tune
decipha wrote:adjust your fuel how you would elsewise
if you read the air 101 youll understand ithbma tb airflow has no relation to tb size
ITHBMA is the amount of air the ecu can not control!!!
the other binaries arent properly patched
Ok, so I need to stay with A9L2 cal. I know I need to change these parameters:
1. Injectors slopes and injector offset vs battery voltage
2. MAF transfer function
3. Displacement
Before I can dial in air, I need to lower RPM somehow. Where would you recommend to start? It's idling at 1100RPM with TB screw all the way out.
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