[vristang]

Thanks guys, I think we have come to the same conclusion, CalEdit isn't going to cut it here. When I get a few minutes later I'll start chasing more capable software..

Derek (sailorbob here) has the definition I'm using.
Adam (popracing here) has a CBAZA definition as well...

[vristang]

finally finished the last of the hardware and wiring...

But, I can't find CCDSW anywhere in Dereks .cry definition
Am I missing something?

[vristang]

I can't find CCDSW anywhere in Dereks .cry definition

Derek sent a response late last night and apparently CBAZA does not use this parameter.

[decipha]

well that sucks

you can still disable dwell though and you must for edis to control timing correctly

set both dwell min and dwell max scalars to 0 as well as the multiplier, adder, breakpoint, and excess

DWLMAX
DWLMIN
DWELLM
DWELLA
DWLTSW
DWL_XS_MIN

[vristang]

Tried to fire it up...

Fuel pump does not come on
Engine cranks, but no spark... confirmed with timing light.

Tried pulling codes, and it told me vehicle not responding.

any suggestions?

[decipha]

if fuel pump doesn't prime the ecu isn't getting power

if your not getting spark then the edis module isn't getting power

if the ecu isn't responding its probably not getting power

i suggest you find out why yout not getting power lol

if you messed with the ignition switch makes sure its getting a good connection and that the connector didn't get tweaked

[vristang]

thanks... confirms what I just found,
It is getting power, but it's low... 2.2v at coils, 2.5v at edis module which is tapped into pin 37.

[vristang]

if you messed with the ignition switch makes sure its getting a good connection and that the connector didn't get tweaked

This may be it?

On the original TFI plug, I pulled the pins for PIP, IDM, SAW/SPOUT, and Ign Gnd... and reused these wires for the EDIS module.
The other 2 wires on the TFI plug (labeled start and run), I cut loose from the TFI plug and terminated the wires in the harness... basically covered them with tape.

I'm starting to think this was wrong?

[vristang]

Then again... now that I look at it...

I have power for the coils coming from pin 37/57, while one of the diagrams I have shows the power for the coils coming from Ign Switch.

[vristang]

In the 88-93 fuel injection book by Probst...
page 283 has a table showing the EDIS pinouts.

It shows...
Pin 8 - VBAT (battery positive)
Pin 9 - Ground (battery negative)


I just disconnected the EDIS power from pin 37, and rechecked... still have 2.2v on pin 37.

[liljoe07]

Like I posted at sbftech. You need to look uphill. Pin 37 and 57 receive voltage, they don't put it out. Check the ECM relay power and ground circuits with key on.

[decipha]

i wouldnt come off the ecu relay for power at all, i'd come straight from the ignition switch

have you tried unplugging the edis module connector to see if maybe its shorting out

[vristang]

i wouldnt come off the ecu relay for power at all, i'd come straight from the ignition switch

have you tried unplugging the edis module connector to see if maybe its shorting out

Yes,
I confirmed the low voltage condition with the both the coils and the edis module unplugged.



I just posted the following on sbftech, but figure it should be noted here as well... (hate doing 2 threads on the same thing though...)


Thanks Joe...

It looks like ignition switch on the eec relay isn't switching.

I pulled the relay with key on, ran the voltmeter to ground and to ign switch... no voltage registered.

I get 12v between ground and KAPWR.
with relay removed, I get 2.*v between ground and 37/57 at the eec relay plug.

[vristang]

i wouldnt come off the ecu relay for power at all, i'd come straight from the ignition switch

Did you mean for the coils, module, or both?

Right now the ignition switch is dead at the eec relay, but checks out ok at the ignition switch itself....

[decipha]

check the fuses you probably overloaded it and it popped

i'd run the ignition right off the ignition switch

i was looking through cbaza today and the ccd switch is there its in the ign_type scalar

[vristang]

check the fuses you probably overloaded it and it popped

i'd run the ignition right off the ignition switch

i was looking through cbaza today and the ccd switch is there its in the ign_type scalar

I'm certain it was the fusible link... the ignition switch to the fuse panel was just fine, but everything after that was only getting about 2.5v...

I bypassed the ignition switch wire for now, and ran a new wire from the steering column to the eec relay.
Now that I've pondered on it... I do like the idea of powering the EDIS and coils directly off the ignition switch. I will have to dig back into the wiring again at some point and will put this on the list of to-do's.

Had to fix a few more issues (mechanical), but the car is running EDIS now.

Still, something isn't right...
I'm attaching the tune I had last night, as well as a datalog.

It seems to be a little rough at idle, especially when cold.
hot it smoothes out pretty nice, but then it breaks up around 4500rpm.

I had zero time to look at the tune, and probably won't until tonight. I suspect the timing values are just out of whack on cold start, and upper rpm's...
I'm posting this just in case I missed something though.

My current plan is to take deciphas CBAZA starter tune and start mine over from scratch.
I was messing with a ton of stuff just before parking the car for the edis swap, and lost track of where I was and what I was doing...

anyway... any input on the tune would be much appreciated.

jason

[vristang]

If someone can tell me why pin 55 for the fan isn't activating, I would really appreciate that too... lol

[vristang]

i was looking through cbaza today and the ccd switch is there its in the ign_type scalar

So then do I still need to set these to '0'?

DWLMAX
DWLMIN
DWELLM
DWELLA
DWLTSW
DWL_XS_MIN

[vristang]

Well, I finally had a chance to look at the datalog... and it's blank...

I'll try again tomorrow...

[decipha]

it sounds like you have some pretty bad luck, your beb file is too large, erase the history to make it smaller, or better yet when you make your new tune i'll take a look at that

if ign_type is set correctly then dwell is disabled so no you wouldn't need to mess with any of the dwell parameters

[vristang]

it sounds like you have some pretty bad luck, your beb file is too large, erase the history to make it smaller, or better yet when you make your new tune i'll take a look at that

I don't believe in bad luck, but I do believe in operator error.

I'll clean up the beb tonight.

I opened the isc cranking duty cycle to 100%, and it starts much easier. Still rough cold though...

[vristang]

I keep forgetting to ask...

What is the difference between the ign_type options... Specifically dis-sp and dis-dp?

I do have dual plug heads on this 2.3, so I'm curious what the ecu does differently between these 2 settings?

[decipha]

LDR_DIS_SP, is for external TFI modules as found on the DIS equipped engines in the late 80s and early 90s

i would think the DP is for the variants of that type of ingition??? i honestly do not know but sailorbob would be the one to ask.


i would think HDR_DIS is for edis which should kill dwell output, and fire the advance length when the edis module is listening which is all thats required for edis

[vristang]

i would think HDR_DIS is for edis which should kill dwell output, and fire the advance length when the edis module is listening which is all thats required for edis

Yep... operator error...

I was trying to use LDR_DIS_SP or *_DP.

Here is the current tune, with HDR_DIS enabled...

I have not run this yet, but will try it out first thing tomorrow morning.

Any input is welcome!

[EFI-Unlimited]

All this talk about dwell control should be a non-issue. The signal that the EDIS needs has no provision for dwell timing. Therefore, any setting that enables a genuine EDIS SAPW signal, by definition, will not have any consideration for dwell.

Brian
EFI-Unlimited

[decipha]

yeah but brian its a HUGE consideration because timing on the tfi is fired the moment the spout is received and dwell is calculated by the length of time that signal lasts, where as with edis all that matters is the length of the signal which the edis module uses to calculate advance so if the ecu is still outputting a tfi signal (with dwell) then the edis module will take the length of the dwell and use it for timing advance, thats why with the ignition type scalar set correctly the ecu will disable dwell and just send the length required for the advance when the edis module is listening (iirc @ 10-20 degrees atdc or when passing by the missing tooth ...or something very close to that, im just going off memory so i may be a bit off on when it listens)

[EFI-Unlimited]

Mike,

Your understanding of the SAPW appears to be incorrect. It is not simply a TFI type coil charging scheme, with dwell removed.

If the EDIS receives a TFI type coil charging signal with no dwell, the delivered spark advance will still be grossly incorrect. The EDIS signal timing shares nothing in common with the TFI signal timing.

The signals are so different, they will require separate subroutines in the EEC to generate them. If you can successfully enable the EDIS routine, you will (by definition) have eliminated all EEC calculated dwell.

All of this also doesn't address that problem of the SAPW being a 5v TTL signal. In order to produce this, you will need a 5v pull-up on the spout line (which nobody has mentioned yet...). Doing this will effectively invert the signal as viewed from the CPU, which likely will need consideration as well.

EDIT: The spout is a tri-state capable +12v output. A 5v pull up on the spout line won't work. Potentially, you could use a voltage divider on the SPOUT signal, or use the 5v pull up in the TFI coil output. Either are possible solutions to electrical compatability.

I am interested to see what results everyone here gets, but because of the aformentiond technicalities, I still leaning toward this not working with OEM Ford code. A patch could be produced to accomplish it for sure though.

Brian
EFI-Unlimited

[vristang]

I am interested to see what results everyone here gets, but because of the aformentiond technicalities, I still leaning toward this not working with OEM Ford code. A patch could be produced to accomplish it for sure though.

Well, I have about 300 miles on mine.
It isn't running right though.

It starts rough, and runs rough for a while after startup.
It runs fairly strong once it's been running for a couple minutes from idle to around 4500 rpm. By 4500 it falls apart like it hit a rev limiter.


I did try setting the ign_type parameter to HDR_DIS for my morning drive, but it ran basically the same as with the LDR settings.

I can see my SAFTOT value moving around the way I would expect it to. I can see changes made in my timing table reflected in the SAFTOT output.

Datalogging still isn't working.

I should have some time tonight to dork with it a little if anyone has any suggestions.

(with all the guys that said they had it running on their stock ecu's... I didn't expect to have any difficulties like this. However, at this point I am committed... it would cost too much to switch back to a TFI setup for it to be worth it)

[EFI-Unlimited]

Well, I have about 300 miles on mine.
It isn't running right though.

Starting and running doesn't prove much. A box stock CBAZA calibration will start and run with an EDIS module. Try it, return all the ignition parameters to stock TFI settings, and give it a crank :)

Brian
EFI-Unlimited

[decipha]

where the crap did my post go?

yes brian im aware of how it functions, i stated the same as you did, what i was getting at is that IF the ecu was still kicking out dwell even when configured correctly for edis that it would screw up the advance, thats why i specifically stated

if ign_type is set correctly then dwell is disabled so no you wouldn't need to mess with any of the dwell parameters

thats why with the ignition type scalar set correctly the ecu will disable dwell and just send the length required for the advance when the edis module is listening (iirc @ 10-20 degrees atdc or when passing by the missing tooth ...or something very close to that, im just going off memory so i may be a bit off on when it listens)

after re-reading that i could see why you would think that, as it may have seemed that i meant the dwell trail to be the 'only difference'

i don't see why cbaza wouldn't have edis support, even the older guf ecus can control edis, just doesn't seem plausible considering the cbaw0 and czaw0 ecu's run edis from the factory and they all have interchangeable bin/strategies