[Shaker666]

Well, after fixing a few minor mechanical things on my 408, the EEC-V surprisingly fired right up! I haven't even adjusted idle fuel or idle air, no O2 sensors connected, and have a heavily modified engine... a testament to the algorithms running within that box. It used to be carb'd and now has the following parts:
- Victor 5.8 lower and upper, 0.5" phenolic spacer
- 80mm Accufab TB, stock Fox IAC and TPS
- 90mm LMAF, '96 Crown Vic ACT mounted in the air inlet
- RHS Pro Action 215 heads with some port work to get them to flow 320 cfm with 2.08" intakes and 1.60" exhaust, 1.7 ratio roller rockers
- Comp Cams 284 Magnum hydraulic roller cam
- EEC-V harness is custom based on a '96 Crown Vic, EEC-V is a JZP3 out of a '96 Mustang
- Of course, EDIS8 and a Price Motorsports billet cam sync sensor running VR

Can't believe it runs, certainly made my day... it's been in the works for over 6 months!

Video here: http://youtu.be/Lh27ZwpNzHA

[85GT]

Congrats! Sounding good so far.

[Stengun]

Howdy Shaker,

Woohoo! Sounds pretty good!

Was that start a cold start? I'm still having an issue with cold start. Once it warms up a little it starts fine but the first start is always kinda tough.

Paul

[Shaker666]

That was a cold start after I replaced my driver side exhaust header gasket. What I've done is used a lot of the tuning tables, scalars, and functions I had setup for my EEC-IV controlled supercharged 304. I am using the Ford 42 green top injectors I used to have on that engine. The 304 now has the Siemens Deka 80 lb/hr injectors.

Also, I decided not to use Decipha's ZXA5 calibration as a base. I'm using my own JZP3 based calibration that I setup independently. My reason for this is that I like all of the features Ford build into the EEC-V for things like altitude compensation, etc.

I'm still battling with what seems to be software issues, though. I'm not able to datalog and I'm not going to be able to get my idle completely dialed without that ability. Luckily, I think I've arrived at close enough numbers for throttle body airflow, MAF transfer, injector slopes, etc., that things do appear to be working rather well.

[Shaker666]

Clint and Derek very kindly (and quickly) turned around some changes needed to make the CDAN4 strategy work with BE on my setup, but I've got it datalogging now and with that I've been able to tune things quite well. This morning I shocked myself by witnessing a turnkey startup and idle! The dashpot is not dialed however (throttle hangs for far too long after releasing it), so I'm working on that next. I managed to get a single O2 functioning as well, so that'll help dial things in nicely.

Paul, I'd be interested in seeing some of the changes you've made to your tune since you started. Once I get my dashpot dialed in I'll post my bin.

[Stengun]

Howdy Shaker,

Cool beans on the start up!

I've been following your thread on Decipha's website.

My progress? ZERO! I've been banned from working on my car until I complete a 30'x30' dog yard so the dogs, a Westie and a Miniature Schnauzer, can go outside during the day while we are at work. I have to install a dog door and a few odds and ends and hopefully I'll be done this week.

After seeing the pic of your TB and IAC I realize that my IAC is backwards and I need to fab a new mount and an adaptor to make it work with my TB which is basically a Holley 850 DP base plate.

I would love to see your tune and see how much i can incorporate into my tune.

You have a far greater understanding of how the tuning process works than I do. I'm still trying to understand the basics and most of the time I feel that I'm in waaay over my head. I've learned a lot but I still have a looong ways to go.

Paul

[Shaker666]

Sorry to hear about the honey do list! We're preparing to have our first born, so I've got a few months of tinkering left before I get really busy with life.

Tonight I managed to get it out for its 1st drive in 7 months. I can't believe it's taken me that long to simply retrofit a car with EFI. I've done several conversions before, but this one took the longest mainly because I did it right. Built a full on custom harness using MIL spec connectors, which definitely took some time. I spent a while tuning the idle, dashpot, and adjusting the spark curves, as well as transferring over to using the Moates QH again since I just got it back from RMA. The TwEECer RT has been great, but it doesn't have the same realtime editing, does it.

Although I'm sure I have a bit of tuning to do yet, the Mustang starts right up from a cold start, idles down, and warms up nicely. If I'm idling in my garage with little to no airflow over the radiator, 198 degrees turns the low speed fan on automatically via EDFHP and 204 degrees turns the HEDFHP. During my initial drive, with ambient temperature being 71 degrees, I'm finding that the car is overcooling. Driving at a steady 50 mph for a few minutes gets the ECT down to 178-180, which is right at ECTSTABL. On top of this, I've got a thermostatically controlled engine oil cooler as well as discrete power steering and transmission fluid coolers.

Anyhow, I decided to roll onto it a bit. I've got an entirely new top end with professionally ported RHS 215s with 2.08/1.60 valves, compression right at 10.3:1. I must've been doing only 40 mph, RPM was probably around 2000 RPM when I gave it about 3.5V of TPS and the car literally just started burning rubber without even downshifting out of 3rd (1:1 on the C6)! Never even made it past 3700 RPM. The car's outfitted with some big meat via some 295-50-15, soon to be upgraded to 335-35-17 out back, hopefully that will improve traction slightly.

I 'll get some pics up after I wash the thing. Find my latest binary attached.

Mach1_IdleTuningSparkEnabled.BEB

[Stengun]

Howdy Shaker,

Congrats on the soon to be here first born and the first test drive!

Bad news is your life is about to be turned upside down.

I have an 18yo daughter that was born when I was 31 1/2 yo and it was a total shock to my way of life. She said that she's getting married and needs $1,400.00 for a wedding dress. OUCH!! Plus a honeymoon.

Yeah, sometimes life gets in the way of our hobbies.

To easily spin 295-50's without downshifting you must be producing a huge amount of torque which should be expected from a 408ci engine with a 4" stroke.

I'm running the AFR 205 heads ( stock ) and I don't know how they compare to your heads, a little hotter cam, and a better intake ( 4-bbl type Vic Jr. ) so I should be in the same power range as your combo if not a little more plus my car will only weigh around 2,450lbs empty.

I have to finish the paint and bodywork and a million other things but I hope to have it on the road by July 4th.

Post a few pics and a video of your Mach 1 when you can.

Looks like its going to rain this evening so I'll be able to look at you tune and compare it to mine especially in the areas of the idle.

Mine idles fine once it warms up over 120' or so, but is a pain to start stone cold.

Paul

[Shaker666]

I have a set of RHS 215 that have been ported to flow a bit over 300 cfm, so not sure how the smaller AFR compares to them. Not sure if your cam is hotter or not, but your intake is definitely not. I'm running a Victor 5.8 with some massive ports, not a Victor Jr. carb style manifold. I've heard that the carb manifold favors the center 4 cylinders more than the outer, particularly on forced induction setups. Also, I'd use an Accufab race TB over a 4-bbl type TB any day, particularly anything NOT made by Accufab. Here's a link to a thread I started inquiring about the preferred methods to implement EFI on a 351W: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=19187

Got some new rubber on the way to help hook up better. I might be able to stuff some 335-35-17s in the back, but most likely going to end up with 315-35-17s.

[Stengun]

Howdy Shaker,

I prefer the 4-bbl style intake myself but yours is probably a little better than mine, especially in the torque department. Plus I have hood clearance issues so I cannot run a 5.0 plenum style intake. My big issue is trying to find an air box or plenum that will fit under the hood and still flow enough air.

Your cam, the CC 284HR ( .533" 284' (224'@.050") ) is a little milder than mine.

It's an AFM N-71 ( .576"/.576" (.612"/.612" w: 1.7:1 rockers ) 232/240@ .050" (w/ 1.6;1 rockers ) 110' ). Chris at AFM recommends a 6K shift point with my combo.

I have the 315/35-17 tires w/ '03 Cobra replica rims on my Spyder. They are only 25.7" tall and might look too short on your Mach 1.

Our combos are similar so they should be in the same power range.

Don't forget to post the pics of your Mach.

Paul

[Shaker666]

Will do!

I ended up using 1.72 ratio roller rockers, so the lift on the cam goes up to 0.573", not sure how that affects things, but it sure pulls like crazy! Let me know if you need a hand dialing in the Peak Load vs RPM Scale function (basically the peak VE curve). That is an uber critical part of getting the tune dialed in. I just use a dyno sim and it's worked rather well for the last several engines I've built.

[Shaker666]

I met my wife for an ultrasound earlier today and she took a shot of me driving with her phone as we were leaving for lunch:

Mach1_EFI_running_resized.jpg

[Stengun]

Howdy Shaker,

Cool!

I'll take you up on the tuning offer. It's been raining so it's slowed down the progress on the dogs' yard but I should be done by this weekend.

More bad news: my mower is broke down and I have to get it going and the part will not be here until Monday. After I get it going again I have to mow about 4 acres by Thursday so I can go on vacation on the 24th.

So, how did the ultrasound go today? Boy? Girl? Twins? As long as the baby is healthy, that's all that really matters.

When's the due date?

Paul

P.S. We need more pics, and a video!

[Shaker666]

Howdy Shaker,

Cool!

I'll take you up on the tuning offer. It's been raining so it's slowed down the progress on the dogs' yard but I should be done by this weekend.

More bad news: my mower is broke down and I have to get it going and the part will not be here until Monday. After I get it going again I have to mow about 4 acres by Thursday so I can go on vacation on the 24th.

So, how did the ultrasound go today? Boy? Girl? Twins? As long as the baby is healthy, that's all that really matters.

When's the due date?

Paul

P.S. We need more pics, and a video!

What can I say? When it rains, it pours! Sorry to hear about the mower. I've had to mow a lot with a manual mower and that was no fun at all. Now I live in Tucson and there's no need to mow anything at all!

It's a boy! Getting pretty excited about everything... due date is July 21. My wife and I agreed on getting the Mach 1 completely finished before the baby comes, so I'm on a mission to complete the car. New set of 17" wheels should be arriving early next week and already have the large 315 rubber ordered. I need a new set of headers to finish the job, but I'm not sure what transmission I want in the long run... a Tremec TKO 500/600 with the tall 2.95 first gear would be ideal. The headers can't be fabricated without the transmission selection having been made due to clearance issues... so we'll see what happens on that front.

[Shaker666]

For anyone interested, here's my latest bin. It includes the following major updates from the initial fire:
- All tuning parameters from a '96 Mustang with 4R70W transmission have been transferred over.
- DFSO (decel fuel shut off) tuned and dialed
- Spark feedback adjusted to allow engine to idle around 700 RPM
- Rev limits adjusted
- Borderline spark table adjusted to suit characteristics of RHS 215 heads
- Spark MBT table adjusted to somewhat match borderline spark (apparently needed for proper transmission tuning)

The car runs very, very well. Note that it's only got a single O2 at the moment.

Mach1_4R70WfromJZP3.BEB

[Stengun]

Howdy Shaker,

What numbers did you use for Borderline spark table?

According to Decipha's MBT chart it has the RHS heads listed as 22 degrees for MBT @ 3k+ 0 VAC / 0 BOOST and 39 degrees for MBT @ 2k CRUISE 14 IN/HG. I'm running AFR 205's and the numbers listed for them are 33 and 44 degrees which would be low for my combo.

Paul

[Shaker666]

Howdy Shaker,

What numbers did you use for Borderline spark table?

According to Decipha's MBT chart it has the RHS heads listed as 22 degrees for MBT @ 3k+ 0 VAC / 0 BOOST and 39 degrees for MBT @ 2k CRUISE 14 IN/HG. I'm running AFR 205's and the numbers listed for them are 33 and 44 degrees which would be low for my combo.

Paul

Hi Paul,

Decipha's definitely got some good starting points in there. His writeup for the ZXA5 base tune says:

Note**** The ZXA5 timing table is setup for 24 degrees of timing @ 80 load for a bone stock 2 valve headed 4.6L modular engine.
For engines with aftermarket heads, its typical to reach loads greater than 90, increase the ENTIRE TABLE (ALL CELLS)
by the difference of MBT spark at 3k+ subtracted by 23 degrees (current value in tune), MBT reference can be found HERE.

For example: If you have TFS 44 heads [25 degrees] add 2 degrees to the table (25 - 23 = 2), if you have DOHC cobra heads [27 degrees] add 4 degrees to the whole table ( 27 - 23 = 4).
the above mentioned spark adjustment is a general ballpark adjustment, you are still required to adjust individual cells while tuning

So for your AFR 205 headed combo you would add (33 - 23 = 10) 10 degrees of advance to the entire borderline table. I have some experience with spark tables, so I've adjusted mine accordingly, but the baseline is a good starting point, for sure. I wouldn't be too worried about seeing 50 degrees of advance at low loads... that only contributes to efficiency. I've actually run mine with 55 degrees of advance at a light cruise before!

[Stengun]

Howdy Shaker,

Thanks for the info/tip.

Being a ol' school engine guy 55 degrees timing advance while cruising is to be expected. I posted this in your thread about timing but for some unknown reason it never posted to the thread.

With an old carbed engine with a vacuum advance distributor if you start with 10 degrees initial timing, add 20 degrees for the mechanical advance and while cruising at 2,000rpm's at 15" of vacuum add in another 24 degrees of vacuum advance for a total of 54 degrees of timing advance. Pretty standard for 60's and 70's era engines.

Paul

P.S. I finally made it home from being on vacation and now I have to catch up on my mowing, work 10hr days until the 14th before I get a day off and somewhere in between try to work on my car........

[decipha]

back in the day cylinder heads technology was very inefficient as compared to today's technology

back in the late 1950s we used to push 55 degrees to our shop's race cars at WOT, that same engine would have probably taken 70+ degrees of timing during cruise if it would have ever seen the street