[cgrey8]

Researching around (mostly because I'm bored at work), I'm finding some interesting discoveries as it relates to Widebands.

Back when I bought my Innovate LC-1, I believe the defacto standard WB sensor was the Bosch LSU 4.2. The LSU 4.9 was an expensive alternative, but deemed the "better" sensor. I don't believe any aftermarket controllers supported the LSU 4.9 just due to the disparity in cost.

However since then, the LSU 4.9 seems to be the new standard with lots of OEMs adopting it to replace their older narrowband HEGOs thus allowing them to run full-time Closed Loop control. Bosch seems to be encouraging it's use by offering a power control chip (Bosch CJ125), which is actually an ASIC, to guarantee the LSU 4.9 sensor temperature is controlled correctly. These sensors seem to be particularly susceptible to thermal shock when powered AND accuracy issues if the sensor temperature isn't precisely managed in a Closed Loop fashion.

It seems despite Bosch highly recommending the pairing of the LSU 4.9 and CJ125, not all aftermarket WB controllers have adopted the CJ125 chip. I don't know if it's costly or if the aftermarket mfgs just feel like they can do the job just as well for cheaper or if they just arrogantly assume they can do it better and thus don't consider that the CJ125 might be superior. Regardless, there are forum battles between the two camps where some mfgs that use the chip heavily argue why their product is better for it and others argue the other direction. Both seem to have good arguments.

What seems clear is if you are buying a WB controller today, you want one that can use the LSU 4.9. There's no argument the 4.9 is better than the 4.2. However what I don't know is what aftermarket company actually has a good, reliable (i.e. worth-the-money) WB controller offering that uses the LSU 4.9? Just because I have an Innovate LC-1, I started looking at them and I like the new LC-2 and MTX-L, particularly for their price. What I don't know is if there are other companies that make a far superior controller for the same price or some justifiably higher price. I'm assuming that if the LC-1 with a 4.2 worked just fine for me for years, that an LC-2 with a 4.9 will too. But is that a safe assumption? I don't just want a model number or link to a product you think is better. I want to know that, but also they whys. Saying "You should get this because I've found it to be the best" is interesting, that kind of a statement is also very subjective. I'm looking for objective info as well as subjective feedback based on experience.

I'm curious if others on this forum have any additional info (or corrections to the above) that would be relevant.

I'll also include in this original post that these discussions often become stale. Many of the discussions I was reading were dated in 2012 so some of their info may not be relevant anymore. So if you are reading this (possibly years later), check the date when this post was made.

[decipha]

i have no insight but i'll ask you this

if your wideband works why bother replacing it?

[cgrey8]

I'm looking to recommend one to the guy that's got the carbed V8 in a Jeep that has to pass emissions. And while looking, I thought I'd investigate the issue a bit and see whether the Innovate still is a good direction or if there's a compelling alternative that's about the same price.

But no, I don't have a need to replace mine.

[MalcolmV8]

Never cared for the Innovate LC series widebands myself. Nothing but problems and the stupid free air calibration and heater calibration is the biggest waste of time. Granted they always swapped out the failed units for replacements. Got sick of those headaches 10+ years ago and switched to alternatives. I like simple units like the dynojet wideband2 that are tiny, compact, zero configurations and just output a simple 0-5 volt signal. No calibrations, no LEDs or switches to hook up etc. Just works.

I've been thinking about looking into http://www.zeitronix.com/ for a while. When reading some tuning books I noticed Don LaSota covers it some in his Ultimate EFI tuning guide book. He says of all the "cheap" units consumers use that he's tested and compared to his lab grade equipment the Zeitronix was by far the most accurate. He really doesn't give any detailed specs like how far off others are or what the testing conditions were etc. but it perked my interest. Would still like to maybe check one out someday and compare to the dynojet, AEM and a few others I have and see how they compare in readings.

[bamaFoxJuan]

I've been thinking about looking into http://www.zeitronix.com/ for a while. When reading some tuning books I noticed Don LaSota covers it some in his Ultimate EFI tuning guide book. He says of all the "cheap" units consumers use that he's tested and compared to his lab grade equipment the Zeitronix was by far the most accurate. He really doesn't give any detailed specs like how far off others are or what the testing conditions were etc. but it perked my interest. Would still like to maybe check one out someday and compare to the dynojet, AEM and a few others I have and see how they compare in readings.

don't guess he mentioned which model. My zt-2 is supposedly off but, I have had it for many years.

[EDS50]

From what I read, the 4.9 is more accurate and has a faster response/display time.

[cgrey8]

It's an interesting redesign of the sensor. It doesn't require an atmospheric O2 reference. They figured out how to have it reference a production-calibrated resistor instead which improves the longevity and reliability of the sensor.

[EDS50]

Yeah it is a really nice update. I still have 2 back up sensors to use before I switch over. I'm happy my MTXL is 4.9 capable to make the switch when I am ready. I like the MTXL-Plus and DLG-1 offerings.

[cgrey8]

My LC-1 is LSU4.2 only as far as I know. All the newer Innovate stuff is 4.2 or 4.9 capable and usually ships with a LSU4.9 sensor.

[EDS50]

I got rid of my lc1. I have the mtxl which shipped with the 4.2 sensor right before they switched over but they updated the LM Programmer firmware to allow the use of the 4.9 sensor so I lucked out there.

[bamaFoxJuan]

well, I went with the zt-3 from zeitronix instead of the AEM. I'm hoping my zt-2 isn't really 2 points off. It is old but, has always done the trick. Plus I can sell one if it isn't bad...or maybe even run dual widebands!

[EDS50]

well, I went with the zt-3 from zeitronix instead of the AEM. I'm hoping my zt-2 isn't really 2 points off. It is old but, has always done the trick. Plus I can sell one if it isn't bad...or maybe even run dual widebands!

Interesting choice. Are the sensors replaceable or do you have to replace the controller as well if the sensor goes bad?

[MalcolmV8]

well, I went with the zt-3 from zeitronix instead of the AEM. I'm hoping my zt-2 isn't really 2 points off. It is old but, has always done the trick. Plus I can sell one if it isn't bad...or maybe even run dual widebands!

Interesting choice. Are the sensors replaceable or do you have to replace the controller as well if the sensor goes bad?

The Zeitronix widebands have replaceable sensors. Honestly I thought all widebands did? I don't recall ever seen one that had a non replaceable sensor?

[EDS50]

well, I went with the zt-3 from zeitronix instead of the AEM. I'm hoping my zt-2 isn't really 2 points off. It is old but, has always done the trick. Plus I can sell one if it isn't bad...or maybe even run dual widebands!

Interesting choice. Are the sensors replaceable or do you have to replace the controller as well if the sensor goes bad?

The Zeitronix widebands have replaceable sensors. Honestly I thought all widebands did? I don't recall ever seen one that had a non replaceable sensor?

I should have worded my question differently. I should have asked if the sensors are readily replaceable locally meaning can you go to your local parts store and replace the sensor if it goes bad vs having to special order manufacture direct. I apologize.

[bamaFoxJuan]

yeah, they can be bought at a part store. My zt-2 uses a sensor from an 04-06 Bentley I think. The sensors are made by Bosch

[bamaFoxJuan]

yeah so the zt-3 with the new sensor is reading the same as the old sensor. I should have known by how much the car slowed down.

[decipha]

for what its worth i use the aem x digital series now, it has made dialing in transient fuel so much easier, dare i say the x switches just as fast as a narrowband