[skunkworks]

I truly need some help with this I can honestly say I'am struggling with trying to find the problem
cold start ok warm up ok drive it and it will idle surge to the point of stalling it is not consistent when doing this
car was on the dyno and made good power on motor and on kit but this problem was there before dyno
so I don't know what iam doing wrong if anyone can point it out and just tell me what to adjust or move it would be a huge help
I will post the bins and a idle log for anyone to review I know I made some mistakes or I didn't do it like other people would have done I am learning and its taking me a while to get a handle on this it runs great idles like strait ass at time
I have checked for vacume leak replaced iac and tps
the first was the 100 shot on dyno run its labled dyno nitrous 1
the second one labled skunkworks50 is one that I was told fixed the way I had done the fueling originally but resulted still in a warm idle surge but the tip in car bucked like hell
so I don't know now iam trying but getting frustrated with it I appreciate any help and I can get willing to try anything
its tuner pro rt with moated quarterhorse

[Paulie]

What strategy are you using?

[skunkworks]

Gufx is that what you're asking car is 89

[skunk]

Also need some particulars about the combo...cam, throttlebody size, injectors, heads, intake, transmission, ect.

John

[skunkworks]

89 mustang coupe
stock bottom end
tfs twisted wedge heads
tfs stage 1 cam
explorer intake
65mm t body
motorsport 24 injectors
pro-m bullet maf
1 7/8 short headers
h pipe flowmaster
4.10 gears

[Paulie]

Gufx is that what you're asking car is 89

Close. GUF1, GUFA, or GUFB?

[skunkworks]

Gufb

[skunk]

That combo shouldn't be hard to dial in.......most settings can remain stock. If I have time I will look at your bin when get home if no one else comments. Did you start with a read of your ECU or did you download a bin?

John

[skunk]

Double post... sorry

John

[skunkworks]

Thank you I do not know why this car is being so difficult I keep thinking it's something I did but for the life of me I don't know what I have another car I posted about that I had some issues with but I got that figured out then traded it for this coupe cause I wanted a coupe and he wanted a car with the 82 gt nose and 4 wheel brakes anyways I took this car to Carolina Dyno and ran it it never really idled for long time for Dyno runs and it acts intermittently my old car did it not as bad as this never stalled I found a vacume leak on it and fixed it and it was fine so
At a lose here trying to learn
Oh car made 292 on motor 394 on 100 shot but idle sucks ass

[skunk]

I wish I could tell you what to change but its easier to tell you to start fresh..... way too much to list. Change only what needs to be changed to match your hardware. There seems to be alot of undefined code in your bin and It appears you subscribe to the Decipha A9l2 method. He may be the best person to discuss your issues with.

If you want to make your life easy......load up the X3Z.bin... its not ideal but its a good base for your setup if you dont want to spend alot of time tuning, Input the correct MAF (not what your running now) and go for a drive after setting your base idle properly. You will likely idle and drive better than what you have now. If successful, you can then move to fine tuning for power and N20.

I recently tuned a similar set-up road course car but used the A9L as my base. The biggest issue I had was tuning for the oversized throttlebody allowing way too much air past the butterfly at idle. Even then most of the idle related parameters remained stock or near stock. Point being....dont blindly make changes without understanding the consequences.

If you want help....you will need to list more of your mods like what your doing with the purge valve, why you set fuel for E10, how much smog equipment is in the car, why your running in a forced neutral state, are you running an electric fan from the ECU.....ect ect ect.

Good Luck
John

[Paulie]

I agree with John, using Decipha's tune is fine but then you kind of need to go to him for help because he has a bunch of tweeks in there. I do use his mechanical idle control and like it. I can make a few suggestions. First fuel has to be dialed in before you can go adjusting idle. If your fuel is dialed in what is IPSIBR at?

[skunkworks]

We did the fuel on Dyno Randy Haywood did the fuel with me but the idle surge never went away I have tried to upload the data log of the idle but seem to be having a hard time doing so ipsibr ? Not sure right at the moment IAM at work I will check when I have a few
But I have some other questions that IAM not understand please be patient with me as IAM getting confused now. I used the base tune for the a9l2 I changed injector maf timing and base fuel map ( Wich I was told not to do I didn't know that ) that's all that was touched I am using the electric fan and car has no emmisons equipment so no egr no smog no EVAP .
One of the posts asked why I have it set for e10 fuel I didn't change what fuel from original a9l2
Tune ?
Second they said running the car in forced netural state again I changed very little didn't mess with things I didn't understand or thought was not necessary to adjust so IAM not understanding where these changes are coming from hense alot of my frustation at the moment cause IAM learning at the same time I have used the compare function to make sure I didn't change anything other things from the a9l2 tune .
Another question with this motor warmed up and iac disconnected TPS and spout out the lowest rpm it will idle is aroun 800 any lower and it will stall
Thank all of you for the help
Sean

[skunk]

No worries Sean. In an earlier post I asked if you started with a read of your ECU or a downloaded bin. That little bit of information tells a great deal of information.

Like Paulie said.... nothing wrong with the A9L2 if you understand it is not a stock Binary and has been modified with redirects and relocated/added code. Again nothing wrong with that and have done some myself in the past. The big obstacle is you need to understand not everyone is equipped take on the task of making it work for them without alot of hand holding. If your just starting to learn...you have attempted to jump right into the PHd course.

Those changes I noted are standard to the A9L2. If you compare to a stock A9L you will see how much is modified. If you include undefined in your compare.....you will see even more.

I can say based on your slope settings, the varying breakpoint and your MAF curve...fuel is not dialed in.

The reason it stalls below 800 is because you have your MAF dead end around 1 volt on the small end, I think your neutral idle RPM is programed above 800 and I'm not sure which your using but you have your high slopes set either 19 or 20......there's more but that's all I'm going to type.

If you want to learn.....you need to get back to basics and start with a working bin. You can either use your stock read and input injector and MAF data or use the Cobra X3Z and just input your MAF data. Either one will give you less stress.

John

[skunkworks]

I really appreciate you taking the time to explain I think I will go with you're advice start over go very slow and make note again of all my changes and hope it turns for the best but I do have something I forgot to tell that when I got the car it was on a completely stock ECU and had a surging problem then I had great luck with the chip a9l2 tune in last car once I figured out the vacume leak it was fine this car has been a pain in the ass I don't know if that makes a difference or if there is something else I should look for
Thanks again
Sean

[skunk]

Sean....yes that's also important information. If the engine was still running with the stock MAF and injectors.....it could indicate a mechanical or electrical issue. If it was doing it with the 24s and matching MAF......it will surge if you didnt do some messing with fuel pressure and timing.

If your confident in using the A9L2 stick with it. It's your car.....tune it any way you want. If you just want to do a quick test ....load up the X3Z only changing the MAF transfer and go for light load drive. It won't be perfect without tweecing the MAF a little but should be close enough to see if surging and stalling persists. You will definitely need to input the lower data points since your idle should be around 0.6 volts or in the neighborhood of 21-24 kg/hr if you can get it down to stock 672 rpm.

John

[Paulie]

I doubt there is any chance of getting the TFS stage 1 cam to have a stable idle at 672 rpm. I do agree that maf transfer function isn't the best. If your maf is calibrated for 24# injectors muliply the stock fox maf transfer airflow numbers by 1.26 (24/19). I would not go wot or use the nitrous.

[skunkworks]

that's what it was doing with the the calibrated maf and the 24# injectors timing is set to 10 degrees i have to recheck my fuel pressure going to work on it all day sunday thanks for the help its really appreciated i will figure this out one way or the other but cause i cant really afford to loose much more hair anymore

[skunkworks]

would any one have a maf curve for a pro-m bullet calibrated for 24# injectors
car on dyno with 100 shot https://youtu.be/gev6i-IozWI
i have been looking over the compare of my dyno bin and the stock a9l2 tune in the compare function i see a lot of things changed that was strange to me i think i really should just start over again the more i look the more i see changes that i don't remember or wasn't made by me on the dyno and i didn't know about it .
I am going to start with the basics double check my base timing and fuel pressure and check again for vacume leaks then reload the stock a9l2 tune and go from there

[Paulie]

If your maf is calibrated for 24# injectors muliply the stock fox maf transfer airflow numbers by 1.26 (24/19). I would not go wot or use the nitrous.

Or this (use Fox 24# calibrated) http://www.efidynotuning.com/maf.htm

[skunkworks]

That will work I will give it a try

[skunkworks]

how does this look maf curve and injector input this is what I would like to try to start over with
motorsport 24# injectors I took the info from efidynotuning and put that in can someone make sure its all entered correctly before I start again on sunday with it will be greatly appreciated

[Paulie]

how does this look maf curve and injector input this is what I would like to try to start over with
motorsport 24# injectors I took the info from efidynotuning and put that in can someone make sure its all entered correctly before I start again on sunday with it will be greatly appreciated

Is your fuel pressure set to 55psi?

[Paulie]

Where did you get that maf transfer function?

[skunkworks]

yes fuel is at 55
maf function was from a friend who has the same bullet meter its what pro-m sent him when he bought the meter he still had the paper work in the box for it I just copyed it in is there something wrong with it ?
I will gladly change it if you don't think it good and go with the one you suggested

[Paulie]

yes fuel is at 55
maf function was from a friend who has the same bullet meter its what pro-m sent him when he bought the meter he still had the paper work in the box for it I just copyed it in is there something wrong with it ?
I will gladly change it if you don't think it good and go with the one you suggested

Just wondering where it came from. If it works well for him go ahead and use it. No matter what you start with I would expect to have to make adjustments to it. I personally prefer to use all 30 pts (only one zero in the volts column.)

[skunkworks]

yeah its been on his car for years no problems so I thought I would try it we were talking about it he said he had all the paperwork for it that included the transfer function he is one of those guys that never throws a boxes of parts away I said well I will try
is the injector info entered correctly ?
just going through the basics again this time making sure with the people who have more experience then I do so I can give it the best chance to figure it out

[Paulie]

Why is injector breakpoint 11.4?

[skunkworks]

FRPP 24 lb/hr @ 55psi
A302


Low Slope 31.114
High Slope 29.408
Breakpoint 0.0000228091

VOLTAGE OFFSET

voltage ms
16.00 0.495
15.00 0.495
14.00 0.586
13.00 0.706
12.00 0.837
11.00 0.994
10.00 1.202
8.00 1.881
6.00 3.631
0.00 3.631
0.00 3.631
0.00 3.631
this is what I used

[skunkworks]

I see that did that change when I changed the injector info?
I thought it was this 5.0000846386 I just went back and used the compare I see the change but don't know why ?