New Project: '97 Cobra

twinturbostang · Post by **twinturbostang** » Wed Apr 21, 2004 11:44 am

I think I may have just gotten one of the deals of the century. Just picked up a '97 Cobra for $2k! It has a rod knock or something, and the dealership I got it from was just trying to get rid of it. Other than the engine problems, it's in GREAT shape! There's one dent on the pass. fender, but it can be easily fixed. Car is white, with black leather interior. 47k miles. Mostly stock except for exhaust, etc.

Plan is to pull the motor, and rebuild it using all forged internals. Once I get it running, I will be selling my '91 coupe. Hard to believe after all these years, but I will be parting with my Incon Twin Turbo kit. Either with the car, or sold separately. After that, I will be fabricating a complete twin kit for the Cobra myself. Goal will be to hit 700 RWHP! :D And yes, I plan on staying with the TwEECer!

Here's a couple of pics...

[/img]

Dale McPeters · Post by **Dale McPeters** » Wed Apr 21, 2004 1:32 pm

Nice car Brian will make a very nice car...........Now all you have to do is call Rad @ Induction Concepts & get the TT setup from him. Just kidding......although it would be nice as the '03 Mach 1 turned out very very well.

Good luck on the engine work.

Thanks,
Dale McPeters

twinturbostang · Post by **twinturbostang** » Wed Apr 21, 2004 2:12 pm

Thanks Dale!

Actually, I probably will be getting the turbo units from Rad. Maybe intercooler also, but not sure on that. He's got a great kit, although there are a couple of things I would like different on my car. I probably won't be able to afford his kit price too. So I've decided to fab up my own setup. If I end up with the turbos up front, it may look very similar to his, with subtle differences. Although there's still the possibility of "hiding" the turbos down lower out of sight.

Dale McPeters · Post by **Dale McPeters** » Thu Apr 22, 2004 8:05 am

Yeah he has a great kit but it has a price tag that most normal people can not afford right now. The '03 Mach 1 kit started out at $7000.00 the first time I talked to him and now the price is $8200.00 for the complete kit. There is one good thing about it though he does seem to use the best of everything in the kits. Also the HP rating is there if you want to turn up the boost a little...........

I would hide the turbo's down low in the front

. That way it is not as noticable to the unsuspecting............

Keep us up to date on the new project. You should be able to make a lot more power with the cobra because of it being an OHC 4V setup. They seem to like the boost..............

Thanks,
Dale McPeters

twinturbostang · Post by **twinturbostang** » Thu Apr 22, 2004 8:34 am

Yes, he uses ALL quality parts on his kit. Plus he really does include everything with it. There may be an option for the kitchen sink too! :D So that's why the high price. There's definitely a sense of sticker shock at first. And yes, not everyone can afford it. But as far as the most complete, quality built, great looking kit out there... I think he's got it!

Hiding the turbos would be really cool. Afterall, I'm used to the Incon kit, which sorta hides them down low beside the engine anyways. Two issues with doing this though...
1) Depending on where the turbos are located relative to the oil pan, it might be necessary to also use an oil scavenge pump. You need to have a good downhill run from the turbo housing to the pan so the oil doesn't back up in the turbo and blow the seals. Otherwise a scavenge pump is required to pump the oil back to the pan. I believe Paul Bird is using a setup like this on his Cobra with the Incon kit, and aparently it's not cheap. I think he's got just about the only 4.6L Incon kit in existence.
2) Space is going to be a big factor in determining where the turbos go. That's probably going to be THE deciding factor of where I place them. I know the HP Performance kit puts them down low at the front corners of the car. But they use internal wastegates. I plan on using external wastegates to better regulate boost at the HP levels I plan on running. But those take up more space. I also wonder if the HP kit has any oil drain back issues, since the turbos do look pretty low (see 1) above).

I'll keep you guys updated on the progress. It won't be turbocharged for quite a while. But hopefully I will have the engine running N/A before too long. I started working on it last night. Hope to have the engine out of the car this weekend. Then comes the rebuild.

Dale McPeters · Post by **Dale McPeters** » Thu May 06, 2004 11:23 am

twinturbostang wrote: hehe. That's the plan! Now that I have a compressor, I can also get a die grinder, and do some mild port work on the heads. Complete stroker rotating assemblies that are bulletproof are over $3k though. So that's why I might be selling my '91 pretty soon. Got a couple of little things to finish up on it, and then I'll probably post it for sale after that.

Anyways, we're getting off topic. Dale, if you want to chat more about my plans, reply to my post in the lounge.

To the lounge we go......................

I have a dremel with a flexable shaft that works really well for the port/polish work on the aluminum heads. Yeah $3k is a lot that is one reason that I have postponed mine for a little while. I think that I am just going to go ahead & put the h-beam rods & forged pistons in that I have already bought and add a supercharger for now (a little cheaper). I already have a steel crank. I think that about 10-12lbs of boost from the supercharger will be good enough for me for a while until I can get everything ready for a twinturbo setup. Should make 450-500hp with the supercharger with a safe tune. I have found an '03 cobra tank & fuel pump setup if they will just sell it to me at a reasonable price. I found a complete setup new for $620.00 but if I can find a used one with low mileage it would work for me. I already have the injectors & maf meter etc. I figure that if I can run that for a year or two while I am gathering all the others pieces up for the TT I can always sell the supercharger later on without loosing to much $$ (maybe).

I think when I am ready for the TT setup I am just going to order the rest of what ever else I need from Rad Craig. The only things that should be left would be the turbo's, associated piping & fuel/water/oil lines. I was going to do a PTK kit but after I saw the Mach 1 finished that he did I just kinda started drooling.....................

Thanks,
Dale McPeters

twinturbostang · Post by **twinturbostang** » Thu May 06, 2004 12:10 pm

Yeah, I have a variable speed Dremel with flex attachment also. But I've got air tools now. ARR ARR ARR (Tim Allen impersonation lol). So I will be getting myself a die grinder. I'm sure that will work a lot better than the Dremel. Although I gota give the Dremel credit. It's an amazing tool. Since I didn't have air tools at the time, I actually used it to cut the frame rail for the Incon notch plate for both of my mustangs that had the Incon kit!! Tough little tool! :)

As long as you're not wanting to push more than maybe 700HP, the Manley H-beam rods should be fine. That and some forged pistons and you're good to go! If you haven't heard of VT Engines, check them out here: http://www.vtengines.com/index.html I'm hearing from several people that their stuff is the best. Rad's a dealer for them, and can get cheaper prices too. So keep that in mind. :)

Since you are getting the 03 Cobra pump setup, does that mean you are going with a returnless fuel system?

BTW, where's the info on your car?!?! I don't remember what you have. Aren't you supposed to have all that in your signature?!?! :twak: :D

Brian

Dale McPeters · Post by **Dale McPeters** » Thu May 06, 2004 1:32 pm

Yeah the Dremel/die grinder I have is an industrial type, big flex shaft, works really well for those hard to reach places. :D I also have a straight die grinder for the easy to reach areas.

Right now I have the Eagle H-beam rods & CP forged dished pistons (large pin dia.). They are supposed to be good for 700hp. I did not know that Rad was a dealer for VT Engines. I will have to keep that in mind if I ever decide to go the stroker route on the Mach 1. They are also supposed to be the best around right now for the mod motor stuff. I would give my eye teeth to be able to put the Darton Sleeve setup in a 32v motor with a stroker, can we say BIG HP

Well the only car that I have left now that is mine is the '03 Mach 1 which has the returnless fuel system on it. I sold the other three 5.0 cars that I had including the '91lx w/347 as I had a few health issues etc. to take care of recently. That is what happens when you are over 40

I almost sold the Mach 1 too but I just could not part with it.................

Ok I have added the Mach back to my signature again

I would add the '65 mustang coupe but it belongs to the youngest boy & he starts driving next year

Boy I can not wait

Thanks,
Dale McPeters

Dale McPeters · Post by **Dale McPeters** » Thu May 06, 2004 5:16 pm

Oh and one more thing I forgot to add was billet oil pump gears & trigger wheel. These are essential in keeping the 32v aluminum blocks together from what I understand.

Thanks,
Dale McPeters

twinturbostang · Post by **twinturbostang** » Fri May 07, 2004 9:12 am

I forget who it is, but there's a guy that has the full big bore stroker setup from VT... 324 ci. And he put down some INSANE HP! Something like 800RWHP with about 10-12psi of turbo boost!

I think I have a picture and video of his car. I'll see if I can find it...

And yes, you definitely should go with the billet oil pump gears and trigger wheel. Sucks the pump gears are so expensive though. :?

twinturbostang · Post by **twinturbostang** » Fri May 07, 2004 9:34 am

Oh yeah!! Here we go...

Video of one of his dyno pulls. 839RWHP with 10-12psi...
http://www.twinturbostang.com/misc/bobbyscarrun6.wmv

Dale McPeters · Post by **Dale McPeters** » Fri May 07, 2004 9:35 am

If you happen to find the video or pictures let me know I would like to see that one. (Edit I must have posted at the same time you did) :D

Yes those gears are high dollar. The cheapest that I have found were $295 for the billet.

Thanks,
Dale McPeters

Dale McPeters · Post by **Dale McPeters** » Fri May 07, 2004 9:43 am

I want one of those...

That is a nice setup. Did VT do the Darton Sleeve setup on the block?

twinturbostang wrote:Oh yeah!! Here we go...

Video of one of his dyno pulls. 839RWHP with 10-12psi...
http://www.twinturbostang.com/misc/bobbyscarrun6.wmv

twinturbostang · Post by **twinturbostang** » Fri May 07, 2004 10:31 am

Dale McPeters wrote:I want one of those... That is a nice setup. Did VT do the Darton Sleeve setup on the block?

Yes they did. Here's a quote from Scott @ VT from Rad's board...

Bob's car has full 3" exhaust, with turn downs. The car wouldn't stop spinning on the frickin' rollers. We didn't crank on 'er too hard, because we wanted to make sure the Darton set up was going to hold the fort. We did up to 24lbs, but the tires kept hazing on the dyno. Even had a couple of boys sit in the trunk. The car did lay down an 839rwhp/600rwtq with little boost (I believe is was 10-12psi). I'll tell ya one thing though, those turbos spooled up VERY quickly with the bigger cubes. Bobby was like "damn dude, it went from 5 to 24 in a second".

.............oh ya. We pulled the motor yesterday to inspect the bottom end. The Darton's held their own with NO problem whatsoever. The bottom end looks brand new (which it should, with only 15 or so dyno runs on it).

Dale McPeters · Post by **Dale McPeters** » Fri May 07, 2004 11:48 am

I need to go to Rad's board & read up huh? :D

twinturbostang · Post by **twinturbostang** » Sat May 08, 2004 3:13 pm

http://inductionconcepts.com/forums/sho ... genumber=4

Read the posts by Khaine and Scott.

Dale McPeters · Post by **Dale McPeters** » Sat May 08, 2004 3:20 pm

Will do..........

Dale

Dale McPeters · Post by **Dale McPeters** » Sat May 08, 2004 3:33 pm

1300rwhp...

That is sick but I still want one

Wonder what the actual price tag was on just the motor mods?

I think I could use my wire welder or tig to build the rest of it if I really had to, less turbos & intercooler of course. This may have to turn in to my very last car ever project.

Thanks,
Dale McPeters

twinturbostang · Post by **twinturbostang** » Sat May 08, 2004 8:20 pm

Well, you can option it out all kinds of ways. From just rods/pistons, rotating assemblies, short blocks, to full long blocks. Check out all the stuff on VT's website.

Dale McPeters · Post by **Dale McPeters** » Tue May 11, 2004 1:10 pm

OK I will just have to mortage the house................................

Just kidding that is comparable with other prices that I have seen.

Dale

twinturbostang · Post by **twinturbostang** » Tue May 11, 2004 11:10 pm

Don't forget Rad's discount! :D

Dale McPeters · Post by **Dale McPeters** » Tue May 11, 2004 11:12 pm

He will probably be the first one that I contact......

Dale

Dale McPeters · Post by **Dale McPeters** » Thu May 13, 2004 7:32 am

By the way Brian is the engine out yet?

Thanks,
Dale McPeters

twinturbostang · Post by **twinturbostang** » Thu May 13, 2004 8:26 am

Almost! I had to return my air tools. Got a bigger air compressor (30 gallon). It's an upright model though, so it actually takes less space in my garage. And the impact gun I got I took back cause it was a piece of junk. It was a Cambel Hausfell model. Had NO power whatsoever. I still had to use my breaker bar to get those pesky exhaust bolts off. I've never seen exhaust bolts so tight. But I am counting on air tools to do the job for me. So back to the store they went! Gona pick up some Ingersoll Rand tools today.

But, everything is now disconnected. All I have to do is hook the chain to the motor and yank it. Maybe tomorrow night if I've got a block of time.

Dale McPeters · Post by **Dale McPeters** » Thu May 13, 2004 9:17 am

You will like the 30 gallon upright. That is like the 60 gallon that I have in my shop now and boy do they work very well........

I also ended up with a 2 stage 5hp horizontal (did some side work on another car for this one). It works really well never runs out of air but boy does it take up a lot of room. I am going to try to pick it up Sat. if I have enough time.....

That way I can put that new trailer to some good use......Got to finish up putting the winch & tool box on this week though.....

The Ingersoll Rand or CP tools are what you need they work better and last a lot longer than most of the others that I have used. I would say MAC or Snap-On but man they have gotten so high in price you can hardly afford to buy them. By the way when you get the engine out & rebuilt you are more than welcome to come down here and pull the engine back out of the Mach 1 for the upgrades...

because by then you will have a lot of experience with 32v engines...

Let me know how it goes getting it out...........

Thanks,
Dale McPeters

twinturbostang · Post by **twinturbostang** » Thu May 13, 2004 11:43 am

Dale McPeters wrote:By the way when you get the engine out & rebuilt you are more than welcome to come down here and pull the engine back out of the Mach 1 for the upgrades... because by then you will have a lot of experience with 32v engines...

Sure! lol Just bring your trailer up here so we can tow the engine crane back to your place. :)

Ya know it's funny... I've been wrenching on Mustangs for over 10 years. Yet I've never laid a finger on a mod motor until this one I bought. And within two days of getting it I was already working on tearing the motor out! haha Lots of experience with 32v engines?? Not for a while! But I learn quick. :)

Dale McPeters · Post by **Dale McPeters** » Thu May 13, 2004 1:10 pm

twinturbostang wrote: Sure! lol Just bring your trailer up here so we can tow the engine crane back to your place. :)

That would be a good break in trip :) but I already have the crane just need your expertise

Although I could stop by my mothers house on the way up hmmm............

twinturbostang wrote: Ya know it's funny... I've been wrenching on Mustangs for over 10 years. Yet I've never laid a finger on a mod motor until this one I bought. And within two days of getting it I was already working on tearing the motor out! haha Lots of experience with 32v engines?? Not for a while! But I learn quick. :)

You are as bad as I am. I have been doing mechanic work off & on now for 24 years and this is only the secound or third 32v engine that I have had a part & put back together. I have always liked the pushrod motors but after seeing how much reliable power the mod motors a putting out I have kind of changed my opinion a little....especially when adding boost to the them :D

Learn fast on the 32v's that way you can teach an old dog some new tricks

I need all the help I can get............

Dale

twinturbostang · Post by **twinturbostang** » Fri May 14, 2004 10:42 pm

When you say "had apart", does that mean you've just pulled the engines out of the car? Or have you actually stripped it down to the block and rebuilt it?

Dale McPeters · Post by **Dale McPeters** » Sat May 15, 2004 9:33 pm

Pulled it out of the car & stripped to bare block and rebuilt...........and re-installed back into car and they actually ran.... :?

twinturbostang · Post by **twinturbostang** » Sat May 15, 2004 10:34 pm

Ok. So what do you need my help with then!! lol

New Project: '97 Cobra

Who is online