[nikstang]

I am upgrading my 94 GT to 24lb injectors and need advice as to changes to make. They are the 'new style' f5de b5a injectors and I have made the following changes to calibrate them in my tune.

PID,Value,Row,Column
AHISL,24,0,0
ALOSL,32,0,0
FN389,1.925,0,1
FN389,1.925,1,1
FN389,1.925,2,1
FN389,1.925,3,1
FN389,1.925,4,1
FN389,1.925,5,1
FN389,1.925,6,1
FN389,1.925,7,1
FUEL_BKPT,1.925,0,0
FN367,.75,0,1
FN367,.75,1,1
FN367,.925,2,1
FN367,1,3,1
FN367,1.15,4,1
FN367,1.35,5,1
FN348A,0.63,0,1
FN348A,0.63,1,1
FN348A,0.54,2,1
FN348A,0.54,3,1
FN348A,0.63,4,1
FN348A,1.42,5,1
FN348A,2.85,6,1
FN348A,4.02,7,1
FN348A,5.70,8,1
FN348A,9.50,9,1
FN348A,9.50,10,1
MINPW,0.0001,0,0

[nikstang]

1st tune unsuccessful. Idled high, RPM was hanging like it was getting too much fuel and trying to make up for it with air. I am currently working on another tune so that I can get her back on the road. Any suggestions please help.

[nikstang]

Ok these are the 'new style' [f5de-b5a], these are 24lb injectors suppose to be from a 97 Crown Vic 4.6L, but who knows, I did get them on eBay.
The part number suggests 95 Taurus..?
OEM Numbers :
F5DZ9F593B
F5DEB5A
CM4786
0280155715
F5DZB

If anyone has any information on these and what hi/lo,PW, and breakpoints are etc.

J4J1 one works for now, but I do not like this tune.

[POPSRACING]

I'd be leary as crown vics were 19#. Utilize the part number decoder, that last number you sent me was a Ford taurus fuel injector. It's good your trying different tunes (you will soon realize the shortcummings of the engineers), part of the learning curve. I'll send an update tonight. The f5de b5a should be 24# injectors according to what I saw in some of the taurus binaries. BTW part # 0280155715 is the BMW part # for 24s.

[POPSRACING]

..............

[nikstang]

Yep those are them, I am updating tune now. Hopefully everything will work right so I can get back to the shop, LOL [on lunch atm]



Thanks for the help Adam, I will call you later tonight to update you.

[dustang83]

Any luck with those numbers?

[nikstang]

Nope. I had a really long crank time and high idle [1200-1300] along with constant RPM hangups around 2000-2500 while driving [in neutral or in gear]. I have migrated my current tune with J4J1 MAF curve and only used the HI/Lo Slope & Breakpoints values. I still need to tweak the pulsewidth and voltage offset, but left them alone for now. i also changed the air manifold volume and throttle body air flow to higher values. This seemed to fix the crank time and the high RPMs, but i haven't had a chance to drive her yet to see how she does.

[POPSRACING]

Did you change the throttle body recently? BTW it's not uncommon for the low end (.8 -1.2 volt range) of the maf curve to need adjustment. Make sure you do this with the adaptives off.

[nikstang]

Nope, my T/B is still the 70mm BBK/Edlebrock power series, and I only changed the MAF to the J4J1 stock curve [no modifications.]

[nikstang]

Still needing to tweak these numbers anyone have any fresh ideas?

[nikstang]

Also have a MAF and IAC from a '96 with the newer style connector and IAC. Got the entire harness and was thinking of upgrading to it as it is a larger MAF [80mm]. I will also need suggestions on a base curve for it.

[decipha]

going from 19s to 24s is not an 'upgrade' it's just a change

[nikstang]

Well you know what I mean. I found a new style [96-98] connector with upgraded IAC sensor and MAF that I am thinking of using. There really isn't a difference except newer design in sensors. I have mocked them and hooked them up ran the vehicle with success at idle and no MIL even after 5 minutes of running. I need to fabricate something for the new style sensor to fit into and seal in my CAI. I plan on installing this tomorrow along with my 2" drop springs, fix my parking brake cable and line out my exhaust, from the headers to the X-pipe to the cat-back [MAC 2.5" w/ S/S Tips]. May even switch out my header bolts for hex key head ones and install my smog delete pulley take off my OD pulleys and install my new chrome powder coated w/p and the factory crank pulley with new belt.
I really need to find the time to install my 3.73's and my upper rear control arms [MAC], that will help out allot.

[decipha]

for future reference, i would have just kept the 19s and upped the base fuel pressure to 50... done and free like as well

hope you got those injector for next to nothing

[POPSRACING]

Do you have the wide band installed with a datalogger yet?

[cougarnut281]

for future reference, i would have just kept the 19s and upped the base fuel pressure to 50... done and free like as well

I know you know this but for others: As long as you have enough fuel pump that is not a bad idea. You also need to update the injector slopes when you do that. Bernoulli's equation works quite well for that.

[nikstang]

for future reference, i would have just kept the 19s and upped the base fuel pressure to 50... done and free like as well

I know you know this but for others: As long as you have enough fuel pump that is not a bad idea. You also need to update the injector slopes when you do that. Bernoulli's equation works quite well for that.

I do need to upgrade my F.Pump but it is kickin' 42 PSI atm and I wanted to use the mutli spray injectors as well.

[nikstang]

no I still have the LC-a but no LSU W/b Sensor to monitor with, haven't gotten around to doing so yet, That is the nest two things on my list is an O2 and a dataQ USB. I then will be investing in a BE registration. Ireally need a tweecer/

[decipha]

ahh did he say tweecer.... dude where you been? this is 2010

with pops in your corner you got nothing to worry about

[POPSRACING]

After 1.5 yrs of farting around Nick I will not assist you till you get a functioning/datalogging wideband installed. Please do not continue to ask others questions on this topic. All your posts and threads are on the very same issue. Injector and maf tuning are irrelevant because you have no data. Don't mean to come across bluntly but it's a waste of time for yourself and everyone else till you do so. Obviously you can call me 585.802.6911 and I can recommend a good wideband kit that will datalog AFR and maf V. Cheers...

[cgrey8]

I tend to agree with Adam. You are just pretending to tune if you don't have datalogging.

Granted if you are an expert tuner that instinctively knows what a tune is going to be, that's different. But if you've never owned and worked extensively with a datalogger, the chances of you having that level of expertise are pretty slim. Injector Slope/BP and MAF adjustments without datalogging make about as much sense as trying to drive a car with all the windshield and all the windows blacked out. Adding a WB will be like cleaning a little 3" circle off the windshield, but doesn't come close to giving you the entire picture.

And don't mess around with the TwEECer. Get a Moates QH. They are cheaper and have more capability. Not to mention, I'd rather see money go to Moates than Glover.

[nikstang]

I am just trying to learn. I really haven't tuned or made changes in my tune in quite some time. I am working on getting data logging equipment and apologize If I have put some of you off. I just want to know as much as I can. This is why I ask the questions that I do without all the tools to do it, so when I get them I won't be just shooting in the dark. I am still on the base tune that you [Adam] and I originally worked on. I will be getting a new A/F sensor and probably a DataQ [usb], and some kind of software to work and datalog with before winter. I have been working on my body, motor, suspension, and exhaust lately as well as working long hours. Hope I haven't made anyone discouraged /pissed at me. I need all the help I can muster. Thanks for all the advise and hope to get more in the future.

[cgrey8]

Asking questions, learning, and researching what you need, why you need it, and more importantly what you don't need is smart. I don't have a problem with people learning and asking questions. I'm amongst the most question-askinous people around when it comes to things I don't know or don't understand. Why? I don't like wasting time or money. But once I realize what it is that I need & why I need it, I budget for it, get it, and put into practice what I've researched and learned which by that time usually leads to a whole new set of questions.

But not everybody is like that. I see people that for whatever reason are willing to spend thousands on an engine & other supporting hardware, but don't want to spend anything on the tools and electronics necessary to make it run right. Nor do they want to pay to have it professionally done. So without doing any research, they buy something, but they get the bare minimum (e.g. TwEECer Base or Moates Chips) and try to make it work with all free software. When they can't get it to work, they come here asking questions. Most of the time, they get informed responses either telling them exactly what they need (e.g. need datalogging or a WB). Even if the advice isn't what they wanted to hear, its often what they needed to hear. But instead of doing those things, they vent their frustrations on the board when people can't give them the answers they wanted to hear...as though its our fault that they bought the wrong things. Those are the people that really piss me off. So yeah, don't be one of them and you'll be OK.

[nikstang]

I basically keep my base tune and adjust accordingly for parts that I upgrade. If there is any ill results I remove and start over. I just want all the experience that I can get. Don't think that all the questions that I ask I am doing to my EEC, I am smarter than that.

[nikstang]

Asking questions, learning, and researching what you need, why you need it, and more importantly what you don't need is smart. I don't have a problem with people learning and asking questions. I'm amongst the most question-askinous people around when it comes to things I don't know or don't understand. Why? I don't like wasting time or money. But once I realize what it is that I need & why I need it, I budget for it, get it, and put into practice what I've researched and learned which by that time usually leads to a whole new set of questions.

But not everybody is like that. I see people that for whatever reason are willing to spend thousands on an engine & other supporting hardware, but don't want to spend anything on the tools and electronics necessary to make it run right. Nor do they want to pay to have it professionally done. So without doing any research, they buy something, but they get the bare minimum (e.g. TwEECer Base or Moates Chips) and try to make it work with all free software. When they can't get it to work, they come here asking questions. Most of the time, they get informed responses either telling them exactly what they need (e.g. need datalogging or a WB). Even if the advice isn't what they wanted to hear, its often what they needed to hear. But instead of doing those things, they vent their frustrations on the board when people can't give them the answers they wanted to hear...as though its our fault that they bought the wrong things. Those are the people that really piss me off. So yeah, don't be one of them and you'll be OK.

I am working on getting the tools I need to tune, tweecer and datatlogging. The only thing that I am going to invest in for a while is a new fuel pump [255 probably].

[cgrey8]

Internal or external fuel pump?

[nikstang]

Internal, I don't plan on running any huge amount of HP [SC/Turbo/etc,]. So I don't think [key word is think] that I need an external. What FP size is recommended for 24's, 190/255/??. Also I am thinking of upping them to 30's and going with a higher compression ratio, along with a better intake, cam, heads, and MAF. Going to try to make it 80-90mm all the way in and get an SSI or Professional Products intake, I dunno. I need sugg.

My mod list is on : http://www.gonzomotorsports.com/?page_id=236

I have changed only my exhaust to a MAC 2.5 cat-back and I dropped it 2".

[decipha]

Nik... do you need a friend?

I can be a friend to you

but on a serious note, i wouldn't bother with 30s nothing less than 80s, if you need a set I know a guy Dave Dalke that'll hook you up at a reasonable price, just say the word.

get a walbro 255 internal high pressure pump

once again going from 24s to 30s is not an 'upgrade' its just a 'change' if your going to step your game up then 80 it

I just clicked on your mod list link and I can't seem to find the CID or the CR
those kinda help

what are you trying to do with the car?

if your going to swap the maf get a 90mm ford works well for about 400hp

I wouldn't worry about going through the engine to up the CR if its still tight, no need IMO, best way to up compression IMO is with boost

[nikstang]

ROFLMAO, thanks man I need a friend. :) Aren't 80s too big with N/A? My goal is to make this a 10-11 second car, but I figure I will prbably get around low 12s. I would like to see 350+ Hp and close to 400 torque out of her. Right now I just want the most with what I have. I feel that my tune could use some tweaking so to speak. The injectors and MAF are IMO in dyer need of fixing.

Yes I know most of my 'upgrades' are changes, but they are newer/better/bigger parts so I call them upgrades...