[soul]

Ok Chris on V8-Ranger should be a salesman, he has me convinced to embark on this path. I'm starting the "parts gathering" phase on this. Think I'm going to go with a quarter horse for the tuning. Any advice and or tips are welcome, I've been reading about this stuff alot but I want to verify what will work best for me since I have access to alot of junk cars.

The engine is complete, and in car with carb specs below

Coast High Performance 331 kit 28oz
Comp XE264HR14 cam
Piston Head Volume (CC) -4.0cc (flat tops)
Connecting Rod Length (in) 5.400
58cc chamber 185 afr heads.
1.7 roller rockers
Full 1 5/8 primary equal length headers that dump at 3" with summit mufflers on it 2 1/2" exhaust

Transmission: I have a built c4 in it but it is going away in favor of AOD (also have 4r70w sitting from 2000 explorer)
Car: 88 Turbocoupe

My main concern is if factory intake would let it breath enough. Here is the following fuel injected cars I have access to, (ie already bought and sitting around)
90 Mustang gt complete harness, comp, intake and injectors
2000 Explorer Complete motor, harness, comp
95 Mustang gt harness and comp (no motor)
And just about any 80-94 model ford (LTD's, Lincoln Mark 6 or 7 not sure, a 351 fuel injected van, some t birds etc.)

What harness would be best and which computer? I'm looking like I'll have to use a TFI dist as the explorer crank stuff won't work due to balance of engine.

What Intake? I have the 2000 explorer one which I heard was pretty good, may have access to a 351 fuel injected motor also.

Can I use a set of factory injectors from one of the motors I have?

Do I need a MAF? and from what?

What ECU would be best? The explorers is an auto one but don't have code handy, I probably can get any mustang on from parts, or tbird.

Do I need to upgrade my fuel rail or is the 302 one big enough?

Will the explorer ecu be alright to drive the 331 around with while tuning or do I have to start out of the gate figuring what I need to change?

What wideband? When doing 2.3 turbo stuff I had a LC1 and it worked pretty well but just curious what everyone else recommends.

Thanks for taking the time to read and reply. Will keep updates when I start, when I start something it usually comes together in couple days if I have everything ready. Like to put in some 12+ hour days on projects :bananadance:

[cgrey8]

Ok Chris on V8-Ranger should be a salesman, he has me convinced to embark on this path...

If you are going to do a Ford EFI build, particularly heavily modified, you should at least consider DIY tuning. That's pretty much all I said.

...I'm starting the "parts gathering" phase on this. Think I'm going to go with a quarter horse for the tuning. Any advice and or tips are welcome...

My only recommendations here are to invest in a Wideband right up front, and make sure you buy both BE and EA. And whatever EEC you end up with, make sure there's support for it.

...The engine is complete, and in car with carb specs below

Coast High Performance 331 kit 28oz
Comp XE264HR14 cam
Piston Head Volume (CC) -4.0cc (flat tops)
Connecting Rod Length (in) 5.400
58cc chamber 185 afr heads.
1.7 roller rockers
Full 1 5/8 primary equal length headers that dump at 3" with summit mufflers on it 2 1/2" exhaust

Transmission: I have a built c4 in it but it is going away in favor of AOD (also have 4r70w sitting from 2000 explorer)
Car: 88 Turbocoupe

That should be a very nice streetable build. My only recommendations here is double-check what your machinist has already done. With 58cc heads and only 4cc dish on the pistons, you won't be able to come out of the hole with the pistons any more than about .005". However you don't want the pistons down in the hole a distance either or you end up with no meaningful quench. If the heads aren't mounted, go with a .039" gasket to ensure a tight quench on a zero-deck machine job. A Dynamic Compression Ratio calculator will help you determine what you are working with...again if the engine isn't already put together.

Also this assumes you don't mind running premium all the time. A formidable build like this with 58cc heads and 4cc (dish) flattops is not going to tolerate 87 octane well...at least not without taking specific precautions or running a very aggressive cam. Your cam is not aggressive. The XE264HR14 is a great middle-of-the-road and off-the-shelf street cam for your setup.

...My main concern is if factory intake would let it breath enough...

Stock GT intake? Yeah you'll wanna port it for sure. Stock Explorer/Cobra intakes are good up to about 330hp. Ported, they are good for 400hp. Read over Tom Moss' intake writeups in the Tech Docs section for some actual performance numbers on what a Ported GT and Ported Explorer intake can do. It's pretty impressive.

...What harness would be best and which computer? I'm looking like I'll have to use a TFI dist as the explorer crank stuff won't work due to balance of engine...

I'm reusing the Explorer balancer on my 331. Although the machinist did have to modify it. It marries the balancer to that engine. But in all the years I've been driving, I've never had to replace a balancer. So I'm not terribly concerned about it. However that option was far better than me abandoning the Explorer front accessory setup I have.

I don't know that the reasons are as compelling for you but if I were in your position I would go that route. With the Explorer EEC & wiring harness, I would run all Explorer accessories, machinist modified Explorer balancer, Explorer cam sensor, and Explorer EDIS setup. Also the Explorer EEC controls 4R70w trannys by default which you've said you might also run. There's a lot of compelling reasons to at least consider the all Explorer route if you haven't.

...What Intake? I have the 2000 explorer one which I heard was pretty good...

They aren't bad. Refer to my above comments.

...Can I use a set of factory injectors from one of the motors I have?...

I don't know all of those vehicles well, but my guess is most of those engines are NOT going to have 24lb or larger injectors and that's what you will need at an absolute minimum to supply the engine you are building. To keep it safe, I'd recommend nothing smaller than 30s. If you are looking for used injectors, find Ford or GM vehicles that were supercharged from the factory like the SC Tbirds or supercharged V6 Pontiacs. Most any supercharged V6 or L4 is going to have injectors large enough for your needs on a naturally aspirated V8. The catch is you'll need to find multiples of them to get 8 injectors.

...Do I need a MAF? and from what?...

If you can't find one, go on eBay for an LMAF. It has the same bolt pattern as the stock Explorer MAF and would replace an Explorer MAF perfectly I believe with FAR higher flow capability...and for cheap!

...What ECU would be best? The explorers is an auto one but don't have code handy, I probably can get any mustang on from parts, or tbird...

Refer to comments above. If you don't go the Explorer route, the next in line to consider is a 94-95 Mustang EEC (CBAZA) since it can also support EDIS, can operate a 4R70w, and is well supported.

...Do I need to upgrade my fuel rail or is the 302 one big enough?...

I wouldn't think so. Most stock fuel rails are good for 350hp. The tank fuel pump will probably need to be upgraded. Stock 88lph pumps generally peter-out around 300hp. Others can chime in here, but I wouldn't think an aftermarket rail would be required until the engine is over 400hp.

...Will the explorer ecu be alright to drive the 331 around with while tuning or do I have to start out of the gate figuring what I need to change?...

I don't know what you are asking here...

...What wideband? When doing 2.3 turbo stuff I had a LC1 and it worked pretty well but just curious what everyone else recommends...

I have an LC1 and like how it integrates right into BE. I don't have any experience with others to say if I'd like them more or not. I can say I don't have any negative comments for the LC1. It's worked like a champ since I've gotten it.

[soul]

The motor is together and Been driving for couple months now. What I meant about the start up and drive part with the explorer ecc, would I be able to swap it over and have engine start and idle. More or less giving me a base line to start at. Reliving nightmares with my 2.3t motor, was really young and got in over my head and since then I try not to jump in unless I'm sure of stuff.

As for the balancer the explorer is 50oz and I'm 28oz on my motor. I guess you had them mill it at a machine shop?

The accessory drive from the explorer is all there but the ALT, AC, and PS are not. Plus I got all new march brackets on the front of this motor.

The thing I meant about being a salesman wasn't being disrespectful either, just meant look like you did it and was super happy with it :) then again you probably alot more knowledgable in this area lol. I appreciate the responses, I know your at a couple different forums I visit and you always take the time to respond.

As for hp, you don't think I'm over the 400 mark with this? The cam I picked was mild as I'm looking at doing a blower later.

[cgrey8]

The motor is together and Been driving for couple months now...

I didn't realize. So how does it run?

...What I meant about the start up and drive part with the explorer ecc, would I be able to swap it over and have engine start and idle...

I don't see why not after you've made the basic necessary changes like MAF, injectors, CID, and other necessary deletes. But since most newer EEC-Vs can't do TFI, you would be forced to update everything to Explorer setup such as cam/crank sensor & EDIS coils instead of Distributor.

...As for the balancer the explorer is 50oz and I'm 28oz on my motor. I guess you had them mill it at a machine shop?...

Technically, 34oz. In setups that use a 50oz balance flywheel/flexplate, the balancer is 34oz for some reason. The 28oz flywheels actually use a 28oz balancer. But yes, the machinist cut down the counterweight on my balancer to get everything to work. In fact, he made a boo-boo when ordering my kit and ordered the crank internally balanced. So there's a LOT cut off both the flywheel and balancer to make them near-zero balance. It was his loss and my gain since internally balanced setups are far better. He ate the cost of that mistake particularly when I told him specifically that I wanted a 331 crank setup for a 50oz flywheel setup, not a 28oz, or zero...

...The accessory drive from the explorer is all there but the ALT, AC, and PS are not. Plus I got all new march brackets on the front of this motor...

All there as in you have all the Explorer brackets, just none of the accessories themselves? So it'd be added expense to convert everything to an Explorer setup and the loss use of the March brackets. That might be a compelling reason to scrap the Explorer idea and drop down to CBAZA.

...The thing I meant about being a salesman wasn't being disrespectful either, just meant look like you did it and was super happy with it :) then again you probably alot more knowledgable in this area lol. I appreciate the responses, I know your at a couple different forums I visit and you always take the time to respond...

I didn't take the comment as disrespect. I was just surprised that you thought I was a salesman. If you knew me in person, I so am not a salesman. I don't "spin" words well. I say things the way I see them, good, bad, insulting, or indifferent.

...As for hp, you don't think I'm over the 400 mark with this? The cam I picked was mild as I'm looking at doing a blower later.

I wouldn't think so but I could be wrong. I'm no expert in this area. My inexperienced guess is you are around 350fwhp. With a supercharger, you'll be well above that. BUT you may be too high of a compression to run a supercharger without changing the cam or replacing the pistons with dished pistons. If you have detonation at WOT now, you can be guaranteed a supercharger is going to make that worse.

My 331 setup will realistically only be in the 275fwhp range. I'd love to think it'd be in the 325hp range, but with these funky Explorer headers that aren't tuned, equal length, or even dedicated pipes, the desktop dyno has me much lower than I expected. I doubt I'll have much chance of being significantly higher than it estimates since I've heard they generally estimate high. Although I'm running the simulation assuming STOCK GT40p flow numbers mainly because I don't know what my port job's flow values are. But it should be a torque monster from idle-4500 which is what I built it for. I didn't build it to be a max HP engine.

[soul]

It runs pretty well, it idles at 750 smooth as can be. I took it to the strip and ran a best of 9.33 with a 1.55 reaction, it kept spinning off line and would walk sideways when going into second. With the trans I have it chirps in every gear and bounces your head off the seat. I know there is more power in it but I"m having issues timing it. The stupid balancer I have is impossible to read with timing light without
A Altenator belt trying to rip the light out of your hands.
B Fan trying to take your fingers off

First gear is a lost cause, if your on it and shift into second it will spin till red line. I built it for torque and it is for sure got some. Around town I drive in second to avoid Careless and imprudent charges. Sadly I think it gets better gas mileage than my truck (2002 ranger 4.0 Offroad package with 4.10 gears)

As for pinging, with 92 pump gas I haven't heard detonation even in 100+ temps here. For some reason it does like to get warm at 60-70 mile an hour cruising, but cools off if you drive the crap out of it or slow down to 40. Not sure if idle circuit is lean or something with timing yet. Runs to good for now, will look at it more when I finish upgrading suspension, all the shocks and struts are bad from sitting. (new parts in mail as we speak)

[soul]

Here is link to album with some pics of it, I had more on FB but it is blocked at work

http://tinypic.com/yourstuff.php?page=1

There are pics of the 2.3t stuff and some vids with new motor in it.

[cgrey8]

Getting hot while driving is odd. I would've expected it to get hot in stop-n-go and cool off while cruising. I'm wondering if that's a sign that timing at cruise is too retarded and needs to be further advanced? Or perhaps the engine is running too lean at cruise causing it to run hot?

At the moment, is the engine EFI or carbed?

And on the balancer, a trick I've found that works well is to take a white crayon and scribe it over the numbers imprinted in the balancer so you can see them better. If you push on the crayon hard enough, you can get the wax down into the stamp-grooves of the numbers and graduation marks, then wipe the surface clean of the white wax leaving only white wax in the groves. Of course after the engine heats up, the wax often melts/slings out. But it'll stay for a while.

BTW, the link is asking me to login...it's not a link to pictures.

[soul]

Engine is Carb'd holly 650. The balancer is stainless with 3 different set of timing marks and the stupid bracket from march puts the alt at the fender and shroud so only spot you can see it is a 3" gap below Water pump and where the VAM originally was at.

[soul]

As for the crank pick up, I seen some toothed wheel kits that bolt onto balancer. Is this a possible workaround? I know a guy on turboford makes for the 2.3

[soul]

Like this

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ford-302 ... ccessories

[cgrey8]

Workaround for what?

[soul]

Getting balancer turned down and using explorer. Reason leary of this was price of my current balancer and I don't know of a competent machine shop in my area.

[cgrey8]

That wouldn't be enough. The Explorer EEC wants a crank position sensor, which is what that wheel is you posted a link for, as well as a cam position sensor (goes where a distributor normally would be). And without a distributor, you'd also need coil packs, which I believe are located above the cam position sensor on Explorers.

I've asked a few of the bin hackers around here, and none of them recall any code supporting TFIs in any of the standard EEC-Vs. So running a distributor with an EEC-V that expects EDIS isn't possible.

[cgrey8]

I just got an email from Michael Paton (mpaton), and he informed me that the EEC-V AGAN* strats support distributors. Looking in a Strat Lookup spreadsheet, it appears AGAN* strats were found in 1996 Broncos, E-series, and F-series. I believe all those vehicles used an E4OD or some variant. I have no clue how compatible the EEC and strategy is with 4R70w trannys. That would require some asking around or research on your part. But that might be another option to consider since AGAN* strats I believe have pretty decent support.

[soul]

Will have to check that out, Did they come with 351s or 302s?

[cgrey8]

Yes. Although in further talking with others, the incompatibility at this point is probably with the 4R70w. I don't know/understand the details, but there seems to be significant differences between the E4OD, of which most lal AGAN* EECs controlled and the 4R70w. Best info I can get is differences in shift pattern and differences in solenoid loads. What I haven't gotten any info on is if the 4R70w can be modified or made to work with an EEC that is designed to control an E4OD. I'd think as long as the 4R70w's solenoids were the same or higher impedance, you could run them. I suspect as soon as you start digging into the specifics of the two trannys, it'll make more sense.

[soul]

I have an AOD in floor that I might just rebuild to simplify things (take trans out of equation). Is there a definite improvement for the Explorer ecu and top end or would I be better off going TFI and mustang harness using the intake off the explorer? If all else fails my 2002 ranger's 4.0 is getting tired and my just get an explorer gut swap next year.

[cgrey8]

I've got an email question to Adam (POPSRACING) to see if he has any info or details about what it takes to get E4OD EECs to control an AODE or 4R70w. But if you have an AOD, that sure simplifies the options and it opens up 89-93 Mustang EECs (GUFx) as possible EECs.

[soul]

Ya I have an aod I can build up, the 4r70w would probably need a rebuild any way plus a tail swap as its for a 4wd. Think I'll go down AOD route possibly.

If its a ford part I probably can get it for free from the lot. :)

[cgrey8]

In that case, buy an 89-93 Mustang EEC, wiring harness, TFI distributor, sensors, a Quarterhorse, LC1 WB (or whatever WB you prefer more), and complete the setup with BE and EA.

[soul]

Any Code PC better than another for the mustang? I got about 5 that I can go pick from. As for harness and TFI, the 90 mustang GT that donated my short block looks like its going to give a little more lol.

[cgrey8]

There are small differences but most are minor. As long as you purchase the Moates Quarterhorse to tune with, it doesn't matter which of the GUFx EECs you get. You'll either use the GUFB/A9L or GUFB/X3Z tune.

Note this flexibility wouldn't be as great with a TwEECer as you can only run a tune that matches the host EEC's strategy. Thus if you got a Mustang automatic donor and thus got a GUF1/A9P EEC, you could NOT run a GUFB/A9L tune on it.

The only other compelling difference that I know of from 89-93 are hardware differences. Some of the older EECs actually had the hardware to do fan control. Since Mustangs never used an electric fan, the hardware to support an electrical fan was removed from the EECs, thus removing your option to use an electric fan/water pump. If you have no plans of an electric fan, then no loss.

[Tun3r]

Were you able to put on new truck shocks and upgrade the suspension parts? Also, what intake you picked? I'm just wondering if you've finished the project

[Tanalah04]

Ok Chris on V8-Ranger should be a salesman, he has me convinced to embark on this path. I'm starting the "parts gathering" phase on this. Think I'm going to go with a quarter horse for the tuning. Any advice and or tips are welcome, I've been reading about this stuff alot but I want to verify what will work best for me since I have access to alot of junk cars.

The engine is complete, and in car with carb specs below

Coast High Performance 331 kit 28oz
Comp XE264HR14 cam
Piston Head Volume (CC) -4.0cc (flat tops)
Connecting Rod Length (in) 5.400
58cc chamber 185 afr heads.
1.7 roller rockers
Full 1 5/8 primary equal length headers that dump at 3" with summit mufflers on it 2 1/2" exhaust

Transmission: I have a built c4 in it but it is going away in favor of AOD (also have 4r70w sitting from 2000 explorer)
Car: 88 Turbocoupe

My main concern is if factory intake would let it breath enough. Here is the following fuel injected cars I have access to, (ie already bought and sitting around)
90 Mustang gt complete harness, comp, intake and injectors
2000 Explorer Complete motor, harness, comp
95 Mustang gt harness and comp (no motor)
And just about any 80-94 model ford (LTD's, Lincoln Mark 6 or 7 not sure, a 351 fuel injected van, some t birds etc.)

What harness would be best and which computer? I'm looking like I'll have to use a TFI dist as the explorer crank stuff won't work due to balance of engine.

What Intake? I have the 2000 explorer one which I heard was pretty good, may have access to a 351 fuel injected motor also.

Can I use a set of factory injectors from one of the motors I have?

Do I need a MAF? and from what?

What ECU would be best? meilleur crédit The explorers is an auto one but don't have code handy, I probably can get any mustang on from parts, or tbird.

Do I need to upgrade my fuel rail or is the 302 one big enough?

Will the explorer ecu be alright to drive the 331 around with while tuning or do I have to start out of the gate figuring what I need to change?

What wideband? When doing 2.3 turbo stuff I had a LC1 and it worked pretty well but just curious what everyone else recommends.

Thanks for taking the time to read and reply. Will keep updates when I start, when I start something it usually comes together in couple days if I have everything ready. Like to put in some 12+ hour days on projects :bananadance:

Did you find a solution for your problem??