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pass1over
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started running awful - solved

Post by pass1over » Sun Aug 21, 2011 5:28 pm

A9L, Moates Q-horse, BE, EA on a 331 with Mass-Flo TB and MAF

Had a decent tune on the car, definitely needed fine tweaking, but it was good enough for me to jump in, fire her up and go on errands or whatnot without worrying about the way it's gonna run.

Ended up with some driveline problems, so I parked it for about a month. Fixed the driveline problem, added a new gear, etc. The battery went dead during that time.

Didn't touch anything with the tune or anything on the motor at all, all I messed with was the rearend and the trans. Fired it up and it runs like crap. Idles at 11:1-12:1 AFR, stumbles, surges and gives fits under any kind of load.

Don't know where to start, checked all connections (they seem fine), checked to see if I floated a rocker (they're all fine). Loaded a couple different tunes, where the only things that changed were the MAF function, but no effect on idle AFR or drive-ability.

So where to go from here? Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.
Last edited by pass1over on Wed Sep 07, 2011 8:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
'66 Mustang
331/T5 - Vic Jr heads, Comp Cams 280HR, 1.73 rockers, Vic Jr intake, Massfloefi TB, GM 87mm MAF, 36lb injectors, 4.11 gears
346rwhp with carb
QH/BE [GUFB/A9L]

'12 Mustang GT
5.0/6 speed, 3.73 gears, HID's, coil-overs (it's LOW), full Steeda Rear Suspension, Forgestar CF-5 20"

pass1over
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Re: started running awful

Post by pass1over » Sun Aug 21, 2011 8:03 pm

would the battery going dead cause my Q-horse to reset or anything like that?
'66 Mustang
331/T5 - Vic Jr heads, Comp Cams 280HR, 1.73 rockers, Vic Jr intake, Massfloefi TB, GM 87mm MAF, 36lb injectors, 4.11 gears
346rwhp with carb
QH/BE [GUFB/A9L]

'12 Mustang GT
5.0/6 speed, 3.73 gears, HID's, coil-overs (it's LOW), full Steeda Rear Suspension, Forgestar CF-5 20"

vristang
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Re: started running awful

Post by vristang » Mon Aug 22, 2011 12:35 am

don't think so... QH has it's own battery...

Did you check the connection at the ecu/QH?
Just thinking that it sat for a while... maybe corroded?

Maybe a ground?
90 GT - In storage, waiting for an engine... probably 351w based and EEC-V for CoP.
87 LX N/A 2.3 - CZAJL & EDIS
http://tunexchange.mustang-tech.org/ - RIP
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cougarnut281
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Re: started running awful

Post by cougarnut281 » Mon Aug 22, 2011 8:27 am

If it sat for a while and now runs like Crap chances are it has nothing to do with the tune. look for a mechanical or wiring issue.

85GT
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Re: started running awful

Post by 85GT » Mon Aug 22, 2011 8:59 am

Maybe the tune wasn't so decen,t and the KAMs helped correct it. With the battery dead, those got lost and needs to readapt. Are you sure it's running the same tune from the same position it was loaded?
85GT, 302 w/Dart Windsor Jr heads, Crane 2030 equiv. Performer 5.0, 75mm TB, 88mm slot MAF, 34lbs injectors, BBK shorties, 5spd converted to 4R70W with Baumann controller, 9" rear w/3.25s
A9L running A9P bin via Quarterhorse w/LC-1 WB

pass1over
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Re: started running awful

Post by pass1over » Mon Aug 22, 2011 5:22 pm

tune was not perfect by any means, but it ran good enough to use it without worry, afr's looked good, and had no problems at all.

Going to run a self test to check all sensors, then check to make sure its reading the correct tune.

NOTHING on the motor was messed with AT ALL, it was all rear-end work.
'66 Mustang
331/T5 - Vic Jr heads, Comp Cams 280HR, 1.73 rockers, Vic Jr intake, Massfloefi TB, GM 87mm MAF, 36lb injectors, 4.11 gears
346rwhp with carb
QH/BE [GUFB/A9L]

'12 Mustang GT
5.0/6 speed, 3.73 gears, HID's, coil-overs (it's LOW), full Steeda Rear Suspension, Forgestar CF-5 20"

pass1over
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Re: started running awful

Post by pass1over » Mon Aug 22, 2011 5:53 pm

noticed that on BE, with my laptop NOT plugged into the Qhorse, on the Hardware tab, Config, Mode is set to 0 and there are no tunes present on the right.

Does it default to that when its not plugged into the Qhorse? Guess i'm gonna go find out here in a min.

edit - it does default to this when Qhorse not plugged into laptop
'66 Mustang
331/T5 - Vic Jr heads, Comp Cams 280HR, 1.73 rockers, Vic Jr intake, Massfloefi TB, GM 87mm MAF, 36lb injectors, 4.11 gears
346rwhp with carb
QH/BE [GUFB/A9L]

'12 Mustang GT
5.0/6 speed, 3.73 gears, HID's, coil-overs (it's LOW), full Steeda Rear Suspension, Forgestar CF-5 20"

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snowboarda42
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Re: started running awful

Post by snowboarda42 » Thu Aug 25, 2011 1:25 pm

pass1over wrote:noticed that on BE, with my laptop NOT plugged into the Qhorse, on the Hardware tab, Config, Mode is set to 0 and there are no tunes present on the right.

Does it default to that when its not plugged into the Qhorse? Guess i'm gonna go find out here in a min.

edit - it does default to this when Qhorse not plugged into laptop
Yes because BE has no idea what you're going to tune when there's nothing hooked up so it defaults to Tune 0. Your QH will stay at whatever tune was last selected however.

Check your salt and pepper connectors at the back of the manifold, give them a good wiggle/cleaning since they're pretty sensitive to moisture, corrosion, etc. They're the big black and white 10-pin connectors. Also what's your TPS voltage now at idle?

What's the voltage read when the car is on? Did you do any welding while you were messing with the back end?
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  • 1989 Ford Mustang LX 5.0L
    Auto to Manual Conversion
    A9L GUFB, Trick Flow TFS Heads, TFS Stage 2 Cam, Cobra Intake, PMAS MAF 24#, FMS 24# EV1 Injectors, 255LPH Pump, Cold Air Intake, 180* TStat, Equal Length Headers, 2.5" Exhaust No Cats, Blah blah blah
    Quarterhorse 1.6, Binary Editor 2010, EECAnalyzer

pass1over
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Re: started running awful

Post by pass1over » Fri Aug 26, 2011 5:30 pm

last tune was NOT still selected with the laptop unplugged. The date was still there in Tuner mode, but not on the Settings page, t hat section was all blank.

There are no more salt and pepper shakers anymore. They were replaced with weather-pak connectors when I did the swap.

Don't know what TPS voltage is at idle offhand and laptop is in the garage.

No welding was done on the car.

It was the tune btw, changed a couple things and its driveable now. Just gonna start over with a new tune.
'66 Mustang
331/T5 - Vic Jr heads, Comp Cams 280HR, 1.73 rockers, Vic Jr intake, Massfloefi TB, GM 87mm MAF, 36lb injectors, 4.11 gears
346rwhp with carb
QH/BE [GUFB/A9L]

'12 Mustang GT
5.0/6 speed, 3.73 gears, HID's, coil-overs (it's LOW), full Steeda Rear Suspension, Forgestar CF-5 20"

pass1over
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Posts: 153
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2010 12:34 am

Re: started running awful

Post by pass1over » Mon Sep 05, 2011 10:08 pm

changing injector slopes does nothing for it, its always pig rich. Where to start looking for a hardware issue that's causing this?

TP voltage at idle is 1.000, fuel pressure is at 39, vac hose off and plugged. Like I said, it sat for awhile, battery went dead, charged it up and now it runs stupid rich.

Willing to give any other info thats needed.
'66 Mustang
331/T5 - Vic Jr heads, Comp Cams 280HR, 1.73 rockers, Vic Jr intake, Massfloefi TB, GM 87mm MAF, 36lb injectors, 4.11 gears
346rwhp with carb
QH/BE [GUFB/A9L]

'12 Mustang GT
5.0/6 speed, 3.73 gears, HID's, coil-overs (it's LOW), full Steeda Rear Suspension, Forgestar CF-5 20"

decipha

Re: started running awful

Post by decipha » Mon Sep 05, 2011 11:10 pm

check first at the maf

markedforlife
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Re: started running awful

Post by markedforlife » Tue Sep 06, 2011 7:12 am

With the QH plugged in under hardware in BE check the moates config box too see if your tune is still selected, example... mode2 tune1...
4400lb 90 MarkVII, KB Blowzilla2.2, 333ci Boss block, A9l BE/EA GUFB, AFX Wideband, PLX EGT&Boost modules, 80mmTB, C&L 85mm Maf, 4" fender CAI, 48lb inj. 255 lph, AFR165/Nos exhaust ports, 1.6r.r, Cammotion cam 220/220 278/278 579/579 114, Meth inj. 50/50 18gph, 175hp NOS Dry, Ported stock lower 265avg@28", 1 3/4'' shorties, 2800 PI Convertor, 3.73, Hyfire CD IGN, 200 amp alt, 306ci old motor best 1.560 60' 7.40@92 11.63@117 with 125nos on MT radials.

pass1over
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Posts: 153
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Re: started running awful

Post by pass1over » Tue Sep 06, 2011 8:49 am

It is, .mode 2 and tune 1 is selected. That's the only payload that's loaded.

Maf appears fine, sensors are.there, nothing looks damaged. Koeo codes comes up empty, but ill run em again just to be sure.
'66 Mustang
331/T5 - Vic Jr heads, Comp Cams 280HR, 1.73 rockers, Vic Jr intake, Massfloefi TB, GM 87mm MAF, 36lb injectors, 4.11 gears
346rwhp with carb
QH/BE [GUFB/A9L]

'12 Mustang GT
5.0/6 speed, 3.73 gears, HID's, coil-overs (it's LOW), full Steeda Rear Suspension, Forgestar CF-5 20"

85GT
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Re: started running awful

Post by 85GT » Tue Sep 06, 2011 12:35 pm

What about KOER tests?
85GT, 302 w/Dart Windsor Jr heads, Crane 2030 equiv. Performer 5.0, 75mm TB, 88mm slot MAF, 34lbs injectors, BBK shorties, 5spd converted to 4R70W with Baumann controller, 9" rear w/3.25s
A9L running A9P bin via Quarterhorse w/LC-1 WB

pass1over
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Re: started running awful

Post by pass1over » Tue Sep 06, 2011 2:05 pm

Have not run a koer test yet, will try to today if the weather clears
'66 Mustang
331/T5 - Vic Jr heads, Comp Cams 280HR, 1.73 rockers, Vic Jr intake, Massfloefi TB, GM 87mm MAF, 36lb injectors, 4.11 gears
346rwhp with carb
QH/BE [GUFB/A9L]

'12 Mustang GT
5.0/6 speed, 3.73 gears, HID's, coil-overs (it's LOW), full Steeda Rear Suspension, Forgestar CF-5 20"

pass1over
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Posts: 153
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2010 12:34 am

Re: started running awful

Post by pass1over » Tue Sep 06, 2011 8:04 pm

cant find out how to do a KOER test when I have no CEL?

I use a light hooked up and count the flashes for the KOEO codes. Tried having my hookup the same way for KOER, waited for awhile, and no flashes. Car was warmed up.

But anyways, started with a fresh tune, input just my basic data and cars running like it should now. Injector slopes change stuff, LAMBSE's are commanding the correct amount now. Seems to be 100% better.

I would still like to figure out how to run KOER test with just a test light. Anyone, Bueller?
'66 Mustang
331/T5 - Vic Jr heads, Comp Cams 280HR, 1.73 rockers, Vic Jr intake, Massfloefi TB, GM 87mm MAF, 36lb injectors, 4.11 gears
346rwhp with carb
QH/BE [GUFB/A9L]

'12 Mustang GT
5.0/6 speed, 3.73 gears, HID's, coil-overs (it's LOW), full Steeda Rear Suspension, Forgestar CF-5 20"

85GT
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Posts: 830
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Re: started running awful

Post by 85GT » Tue Sep 06, 2011 10:46 pm

Same as KOEO. Just start the engine. :)
85GT, 302 w/Dart Windsor Jr heads, Crane 2030 equiv. Performer 5.0, 75mm TB, 88mm slot MAF, 34lbs injectors, BBK shorties, 5spd converted to 4R70W with Baumann controller, 9" rear w/3.25s
A9L running A9P bin via Quarterhorse w/LC-1 WB

pass1over
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Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2010 12:34 am

Re: started running awful

Post by pass1over » Wed Sep 07, 2011 1:31 pm

Tried that, got nothing. Waited for awhile, got no blinkes at all. Only koeo code I get is.15
'66 Mustang
331/T5 - Vic Jr heads, Comp Cams 280HR, 1.73 rockers, Vic Jr intake, Massfloefi TB, GM 87mm MAF, 36lb injectors, 4.11 gears
346rwhp with carb
QH/BE [GUFB/A9L]

'12 Mustang GT
5.0/6 speed, 3.73 gears, HID's, coil-overs (it's LOW), full Steeda Rear Suspension, Forgestar CF-5 20"

85GT
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Posts: 830
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Location: NYC

Re: started running awful

Post by 85GT » Wed Sep 07, 2011 3:13 pm

Jeesh, I've done it so many times it's just automatic. Let me see if I can picture it in my head.
I think the first thing happens as the engine starts is you see a blink count that equals half the numbers of cylinders. So you should see 4 flashes. Then the engine will get 'exorcised' speeding up slowing down, runs about a minute maybe. Then settles down, get the quick codes, then flashes the regular codes. After the last flash, a quick blip of the throttle puts you into the 1st balance test.
85GT, 302 w/Dart Windsor Jr heads, Crane 2030 equiv. Performer 5.0, 75mm TB, 88mm slot MAF, 34lbs injectors, BBK shorties, 5spd converted to 4R70W with Baumann controller, 9" rear w/3.25s
A9L running A9P bin via Quarterhorse w/LC-1 WB

pass1over
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Re: started running awful

Post by pass1over » Wed Sep 07, 2011 5:27 pm

Yea, I read all that and printed out instructions from fordfuelinjection.com.

warmed the car up past 180, hooked up my test light, started the car and the light never blinked. Never saw the 4 blinks for a v8. Waited around 2-3min and light never blinked at all.
'66 Mustang
331/T5 - Vic Jr heads, Comp Cams 280HR, 1.73 rockers, Vic Jr intake, Massfloefi TB, GM 87mm MAF, 36lb injectors, 4.11 gears
346rwhp with carb
QH/BE [GUFB/A9L]

'12 Mustang GT
5.0/6 speed, 3.73 gears, HID's, coil-overs (it's LOW), full Steeda Rear Suspension, Forgestar CF-5 20"

CA67EFI
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Re: started running awful

Post by CA67EFI » Wed Sep 07, 2011 5:46 pm

I have the exact same symptoms. The Engine Off codes are no problem, but i cannot get the Engine On tests to run. I dont get any blinks at all. I don't have a harness from my transmission to the EEC, so i am guessing my problem has something to do with the computer being unhappy about where it thinks the shifter is.

pass1over
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Re: started running awful

Post by pass1over » Wed Sep 07, 2011 5:55 pm

might be, as I do not have the transmission harness, nor the neutral switch installed on my car.

Anyone know if this will cause it to fail or stop the test?
'66 Mustang
331/T5 - Vic Jr heads, Comp Cams 280HR, 1.73 rockers, Vic Jr intake, Massfloefi TB, GM 87mm MAF, 36lb injectors, 4.11 gears
346rwhp with carb
QH/BE [GUFB/A9L]

'12 Mustang GT
5.0/6 speed, 3.73 gears, HID's, coil-overs (it's LOW), full Steeda Rear Suspension, Forgestar CF-5 20"

85GT
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Re: started running awful - solved

Post by 85GT » Wed Sep 07, 2011 9:52 pm

Hmmm... that's sounding familiar. But I would expect you'd get a code 67 in the KOEO test.
Do you have the clutch switch wire in? If so, try holding the pedal down.
85GT, 302 w/Dart Windsor Jr heads, Crane 2030 equiv. Performer 5.0, 75mm TB, 88mm slot MAF, 34lbs injectors, BBK shorties, 5spd converted to 4R70W with Baumann controller, 9" rear w/3.25s
A9L running A9P bin via Quarterhorse w/LC-1 WB

pass1over
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Re: started running awful - solved

Post by pass1over » Wed Sep 07, 2011 10:05 pm

I have no clutch switch at all.I think I didnt hook those wires up to anything. Clutch in or out wouldnt matter to the ecu. Still push it in when starting, habit.
'66 Mustang
331/T5 - Vic Jr heads, Comp Cams 280HR, 1.73 rockers, Vic Jr intake, Massfloefi TB, GM 87mm MAF, 36lb injectors, 4.11 gears
346rwhp with carb
QH/BE [GUFB/A9L]

'12 Mustang GT
5.0/6 speed, 3.73 gears, HID's, coil-overs (it's LOW), full Steeda Rear Suspension, Forgestar CF-5 20"

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